Knocking through a wall to open up lounge and dining room

AlexMac

adonis10 wrote: »

Ok, so my next renovation question is about opening up the lounge and dining room, something I believe to be cheaper than the driveway!
Knock through the internal wall, move existing lounge door.
Considerations:
- Is it a supporting wall?
- Does it already have a steel lintel?
Anything else? Estimated cost?

Anything else?
- Making good flooring...?

We once had a Victorian House where a wall had already been taken out. Although it was non structural and the original floorboards appeared to have run from one room though to the adjacent one, slight settlement of the wall over the years meant that there was a distinct dip or wave where the absent wall had been. No big deal, as we had to lift and relay the boards of the suspended flooring anyway, as many were gappy and broken.

- Also; arming yourself with evidence of a job properly done? When we bought our current 1980's house, we got a copy of a structural engineer's report from a previous sale, confirming that the removal of a wall between the lounge and diner had been done properly. We then spoke to that surveyor, who was still practising. You'll be asked for some kind of certification if you ever come to sell; unless you lie about doing any building work on the pre-sale questions

- Don't cut corners; on one memorable occasion my wiofe reported that she heard a distant rumble, then found that a house several doors away had collapsed in on itself as the internal wall was removed by Wild Bill Hickock and Billy the Kid plc

-Happy demolitions

adonis10

AlexMac wrote: »

Anything else?
- Making good flooring...?

We once had a Victorian House where a wall had already been taken out. Although it was non structural and the original floorboards appeared to have run from one room though to the adjacent one, slight settlement of the wall over the years meant that there was a distinct dip or wave where the absent wall had been. No big deal, as we had to lift and relay the boards of the suspended flooring anyway, as many were gappy and broken.

- Also; arming yourself with evidence of a job properly done? When we bought our current 1980's house, we got a copy of a structural engineer's report from a previous sale, confirming that the removal of a wall between the lounge and diner had been done properly. We then spoke to that surveyor, who was still practising. You'll be asked for some kind of certification if you ever come to sell; unless you lie about doing any building work on the pre-sale questions

- Don't cut corners; on one memorable occasion my wiofe reported that she heard a distant rumble, then found that a house several doors away had collapsed in on itself as the internal wall was removed by Wild Bill Hickock and Billy the Kid plc

-Happy demolitions

Good post, thanks.


I am money conscious but I'm not cutting corners with something like this. My biggest fear is trusting a builder - I'm sure there are lots of great ones out there, but one hears so many horror stories it petrifies me.


So, you think get it done and then get a structural engineer to come in and certify it?

warby68

I prefer kitchen/diner/family and separate living room and have a feeling that's more 'on trend' as well than small closed off kitchen and through lounge/diner.

I don't like gardens converted to parking either especially when you get a whole street of them.

Not trying to be negative but OP has quite strong views about what looks good and it helps early on to realise that your tastes are not always as widely appealing as you think. I'd recommend living with the house as it is for a while before structural changes just to be sure.

PS We knocked through in our last house but between kitchen/dining

Doozergirl

adonis10 wrote: »

Good post, thanks.


I am money conscious but I'm not cutting corners with something like this. My biggest fear is trusting a builder - I'm sure there are lots of great ones out there, but one hears so many horror stories it petrifies me.


So, you think get it done and then get a structural engineer to come in and certify it?

No. You get a structural engineer to calculate the load and the lintel or RSJ to support the wall.

You give the calculations to a builder and they remove part of the wall and support it according to the spec given.

You also notify Building Control, give them a copy of the calcs and then they certify it.

adonis10

warby68 wrote: »

I prefer kitchen/diner/family and separate living room and have a feeling that's more 'on trend' as well than small closed off kitchen and through lounge/diner.

I don't like gardens converted to parking either especially when you get a whole street of them.

Not trying to be negative but OP has quite strong views about what looks good and it helps early on to realise that your tastes are not always as widely appealing as you think. I'd recommend living with the house as it is for a while before structural changes just to be sure.

PS We knocked through in our last house but between kitchen/dining

Fair point, but we have to decide what we want first and foremost, we're not buying it to do up and sell within 9 months for a quick buck.


If everyone read these boards I don't think any renovation work would ever be done.


All well and good doing that but if we add nice wood flooring and decorate, and then decide to knock the wall through anyway it is going to make a mess and cause much hassle.

pinkteapot

This house has a very similar layout to the one OP is buying:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58005080.html

The listing has a floorplan.

Personally, I also prefer a kitchen-diner to a lounge-diner. Looking at the floor plan, would a kitchen-diner across the back of the house be feasible? (would be slightly L-shaped as kitchen is longer than dining room). Looks like it'd be a nice size. Your lounge-diner would be very long and thin.

Also - is there currently just an arch between the lounge and the dining room? The photos make it look like one room anyway - same decor continues through both and the dining room is just being used as a study/lounge extension, as the current owners have their dining table in the conservatory.

And I would advise - as you say this isn't a short term do up and sell - live with the house for a few months. Live with the decor while you see how you *use* the rooms and what you want to have where. You're right that you shouldn't change decor and flooring and then decide on structural changes, but equally you honestly won't know exactly how you want to use the space until you've lived there for a bit.

warby68

adonis10 wrote: »

Fair point, but we have to decide what we want first and foremost, we're not buying it to do up and sell within 9 months for a quick buck.


If everyone read these boards I don't think any renovation work would ever be done.


All well and good doing that but if we add nice wood flooring and decorate, and then decide to knock the wall through anyway it is going to make a mess and cause much hassle.

Well don't do the floors and decorate either until you're sure which way to go !

From experience, I do know you change your mind about things quite a bit once you're in there.

Its not about scaring you off just taking your time before diving in - as you can see these would be expensive mistakes

adonis10

pinkteapot wrote: »

Here's the OP's house:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-58005080.html

(OP - you gave the full address in the photos you posted on the driveway thread)

The listing has a floorplan.

Personally, I also prefer a kitchen-diner to a lounge-diner. Looking at the floor plan, would a kitchen-diner across the back of the house be feasible? (would be slightly L-shaped as kitchen is longer than dining room). Looks like it'd be a nice size. Your lounge-diner would be very long and thin.

Also - is there currently just an arch between the lounge and the dining room? The photos make it look like one room anyway - same decor continues through both and the dining room is just being used as a study/lounge extension, as the current owners have their dining table in the conservatory.

And I would advise - as you say this isn't a short term do up and sell - live with the house for a few months. Live with the decor while you see how you *use* the rooms and what you want to have where. You're right that you shouldn't change decor and flooring and then decide on structural changes, but equally you honestly won't know exactly how you want to use the space until you've lived there for a bit.

That isn't the one we are buying, but very similar layout.

AlexMac

adonis10 wrote: »

Ok, so my next renovation question is about opening up the lounge and dining room, something I believe to be cheaper than the driveway!
Knock through the internal wall, move existing lounge door.
Considerations:
- Is it a supporting wall?
- Does it already have a steel lintel?
Anything else? Estimated cost?

Anything else?
- Making good flooring...?

We once had a Victorian House where a wall had already been taken out. Although it was non structural and the original floorboards appeared to have run from one room though to the adjacent one, slight settlement of the wall over the years meant that there was a distinct dip or wave where the absent wall had been. No big deal, as we had to lift and relay the boards of the suspended flooring anyway, as many were gappy and broken.

- Also; arming yourself with evidence of a job properly done? When we bought our current 1980's house, we got a copy of a structural engineer's report from a previous sale, confirming that the removal of a wall between the lounge and diner had been done properly. We then spoke to that surveyor, who was still practising. You'll be asked for some kind of certification if you ever come to sell; unless you lie about doing any building work on the pre-sale questions

- Don't cut corners; on one memorable occasion my wife reported that she heard a distant rumble, then found that a house several doors away had collapsed in on itself as the internal wall was removed by Wild Bill Hickock and Billy the Kid plc

-Happy demolitions

shopaholicz

Hi adonis10, we have builders coming in next Monday to take out the supporting wall between our kitchen and dining room. Our house is very similar to the one on rightmove. We already have double doors from living room through to dining room and a conservatory on the back. We don't use our dining room much at all as it's the furthest away from the kitchen, bad planning.

Anyway, when we contacted a builder he said he needed a structural engineer to come and calculate the weight the steel beams needed to support before he ordered them. The more weight they have to support the thicker they need to be and the more they then cost. Once he's got that report he can order the beams, then pass info onto building control at the council. After he's done the job the council come in and inspect. You have to pay the structural engineer and the building control inspector over and above the builders costs.

We've been told the work to take out the wall and make good the floor will take 2 weeks.

We also need to remove 2 radiators before the work can be done and get a water pipe moved. Do you have any radiators or pipes around the wall you want to remove?

In total we're expecting it to cost us £350 structural engineer, £75 building control, £2,500 builder, £300 skips. Flooring and decorating will be extra to this.