EU Brexit impact - Treasury Analysis

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

RJP33 wrote: »

Laws begin with the Commission.

Which consists of an appointed commissioner from each democratically elected government in the EU.

RJP33

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Which consists of an appointed commissioner from each democratically elected government in the EU.

So we have a 1/28th say over a significant number of laws which become binding in the UK? Then a 9% vote over said laws in the Parliament?

There are good reasons to stay in the EU, democracy isn't one of them.

Herzlos

michaels wrote: »

The GFC seems to have resulted in GDP per capita 16% below trend as of 2015. And yes it has been very unpleasant. But it is 16% and it has been bearable.

It was bearable, in that we've sort of made it though it. Though public services is in tatters and is now cut to the bone, and we've doubled the national deficit. Morale seems to be at an all time low.

Could we handle another 6% drop?

I honestly don't know what benefits we'd see that'd make me agree to a 6% cut in GDP.

RJP33

Herzlos wrote: »

Could we handle another 6% drop?

Isn't this not a drop but just growing 6% slower, supposedly, than we otherwise would do?

Paul Johnson, IFS director:

If we governed ourselves particularly well, you can see a world in which in the long run we would be better off.

mwpt

RJP33 wrote: »

So we have a 1/28th say over a significant number of laws which become binding in the UK? Then a 9% vote over said laws in the Parliament?

There are good reasons to stay in the EU, democracy isn't one of them.

Democracy is largely an illusion. I can no more vote for policies that I believe the UK should pursue than I could for European wide policies.

Tromking

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Which consists of an appointed commissioner from each democratically elected government in the EU.

The key word in that sentence is "appointed" of course.

Miss_Samantha

RJP33 wrote: »

So we have a 1/28th say over a significant number of laws which become binding in the UK? Then a 9% vote over said laws in the Parliament?

And I have less than a 1/44,722,000th (size of UK electorate) say over the laws which become binding on me... How democratic is that?

Democracy does not mean doing only what I want.

Tromking wrote: »

The key word in that sentence is "appointed" of course.

We should all reject the authority of the 'appointed' judges sitting in UK courts.

RJP33 wrote: »

There are good reasons to stay in the EU, democracy isn't one of them.

Equally, there might be reasons to leave the EU, but lack of democracy isn't one of them.

Thrugelmir

wymondham wrote: »

The remain camp seems to focus too much on the financial side of things - relying on big institutions to follow rank and speak out. The finance side, although important to Ministers, isn't as important to the public who see the real problems around them.... this will be an interesting lead up indeed as the remain camp will become increasingly disconnected if they don't change tactic.

Agree. There's a disconnect to what many people experience in their daily lives. The population boom has, depending on where you lived, had a major impact on daily life. Reeling out heads of international organisations to speak is very condescending. Given that they are rewarded and enjoy lifestyles the ordinary folk can only dream of.

Thrugelmir

Wenlock wrote: »

On Radio 4 the BBC's Kamal Ahmed suggested the £4,300 figure was based on dividing the estimated (guessed) increased GDP figure in 2030 by the 26.5 million households in the UK.

However; largely as a result of high immigration, which will continue if we stay in the EU, the UK population is increasing by roughly 400K per year. By 2030 the population may be 10% higher than at present. I will be interested to see if the Treasury's £4,300 figure takes account of the many more "households" that will exist by 2030.

When the CEO of Shell is paid £14 million a year (for example). The burden could so easily be absorbed without any noticeable difference.

RJP33

mwpt wrote: »

Democracy is largely an illusion. I can no more vote for policies that I believe the UK should pursue than I could for European wide policies.

However you and the people of the UK can remove those from power in the UK, but not in Europe, bar a small % of UK MEPs.

One of Tony Benn's classic rules of democracy was 'how do we get rid of you'? How do UK citizens get rid of Juncker?