Buying new house - heating options

alarge

Hi

My partner and I are in the process of purchasing our first home, which is an ex council 3 bed semi detached house. It currently has a log burning back boiler / fire place in the living / dining room and storage heaters else where. We have no access to mains gas. There is an electric shower as well. Though to get hot water we would need to light the fire!

This setup is obviously really expensive and would not suit our lifestyle! We have ideas for making the downstairs all open plan (kitchen, living, dining) with a log burner which would provide the majority of the heating downstairs. We also have range cooker (gas hobs / electric ovens) which is currently run on LPG bottles. We will be taking with us and putting in a new kitchen.

I am pretty sure we would need a combi boiler either oil or LPG. My partners brother is a Gas Safe plumber (not Oftec) so LPG, due to cooker and cheaper installation costs is looking favorable. I have read a lot on here about how contracts / tank rental etc makes it a minefield so would like to buy my own tank much like you would with oil. I have already found a supplier that could do 33ppl + 5% VAT in my area. Will also be checking Woldlink as have read a post that says they are now 22.93ppl +5% VAT!!

Am I being realistic in purchasing a new tank myself? I have seen on eBay a company that sells them with certificates etc. Has anyone else done this? Or can give me any advice on getting a tank?

I only ask as a lot of advice seems to be install oil from the get go! I will of course be installing underfloor insulation and get cavity wall insulation too!

On the flip side should we be looking at air source / ground source? Where can I find info on the costs / grants available for this? Roof is south facing so maybe even solar? I haven't really looked in to these as I assume they will be a lot more expensive to install and the house is probably not our forever home!

Many thanks

Andrew

J_B

Interesting dilemma - surprised nobody has responded

Why as the current system 'obviously expensive'??
But, in the same sentence, you say that it doesn't suit your 'lifestyle choice' which is a completely different matter
I'm surprised that there isn't an immersion heater element in the hot water tank.

When I last looked, oil boilers were more expensive (1K?) than LPG but the fuel is much cheaper - if you are in it for the long haul, go with oil, don't be swayed by a few cooking rings for your fuel choice
What's the cost difference between oil tank and gas tank?
It's easier to steal oil than gas.
Gas tanks need ongoing 'safety inspections' ... do they????

matelodave

We had that dilemma six years ago (2010) and decided to go for an air source heat pump because we did not want either an oil or gas tank in the garden nor the aggro or having them filled. We see squadrons of tankers up and down our road in the winter delivering oil or gas

I estimate that the heatpump cost around £3.5-4k more than either an oil or LPG installation (boiler, tank etc) and although the RHI (renewable heat incentive) was being talked about, we made the decision to do it regardless - it took three years before it was eventually implemented (2014) and we are now getting around £700 a year for 7 years (about £4.9k back). As far as I know there haven't been any grants for the initial installation cost since about 2009 so we missed out then.

It suits our lifestyle as we are at home all day everyday and our total electricity cost is around £750 a a year (heating, hot water, cooking, washing etc) which I think really good for a 30 year old 140m2 three bedroom detached bungalow right out in the country. Based on my estimates about £400 of that is for heating

Chatting to neighbours they are paying considerably more - in some cases over £1.5k a year for LPG on top of their electricity bills.

IMO a heatpump is good for all day continuous heating and not for short bursts in the morning when you get up and again in the evening when you get home. For a similar reason I'd probably discount storage heaters as well.

So depending on your lifestyle I'd seriously consider oil as it's probably the cheapest at the moment but you've got to consider where you install the tank, deliveries and security as a tank full is quite an investment.

We've chosen not to have solar as we heat the house in the winter when the days are short, cold and the sun doesn't shine and to maximise the use of solar you really need to want do the washing, ironing, vacuuming etc when the sun is shining. The payback is probably at least 10 years or even more as the FIT payments are significantly less than they used to be.

alarge

I say its more expensive, to be fair I have never paid energy bills so have no real idea other than electricity heating is up there with being one of the more expensive ways to heat a home!

Lifestyle does seem to be the major factor here so we both work during the day and are in during the evening / weekends. We have access to free logs so would see ourselves using the log burner mainly and leave the door open for heat to flow upstairs. I think the heating will be on for 30 mins / 1 hour in the morning, maybe 30 mins to take the chill off in the evening when it gets cooler before we get home. Quite like the idea of getting a smart thermostat (like nest) to help. Only really have showers once a day, bath doesn't get used often (1 time a month maybe). Although I am not really sure, I can see us living there for a minimum of 5 years.

Yes an oil boiler is about £1k more expensive, the tanks for oil can be had for around £750. Boilerjuice.com currently lists the price of oil as 30.74 ppl.

We can get a good discount on a gas boiler and all piping etc. The gas tanks are proving hard to come by but for an equivalent (above ground, 1200) tank I have found on eBay (made by Aygaz) one for £1300. You need to have a safety certificate with the tank, which seems to last 20 years or sometimes 10 years. This is what the delivery driver will check, and wouldn't deliver without one!

I don't like the idea of having a tank on show in the garden so would probably be looking at an underground tank, which is a lot easier with LPG! Or building a structure to hide the oil tank.

I guess what I am trying to stop from happening is being one of those people (much like some of your neighbours) that has to pay £1.5k a year for LPG. I don't see that I would, but would oil be that much cheaper to warrant the outlay.

Thanks for your replies / advice!

Ectophile

One option to consider - someone I know has done it - it to install a big hot water tank and immersion heater. Get solar panels, and a diverter which sends all the spare electricity from the panels to the immersion heater.

In the summer, you should have plenty of free hot water. But in the winter you would have to use the wood burner.

J_B

I just wonder if you would get more replies if you posted in the 'In My Home' section???
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=39

alarge

I was speaking to a friend who is looking at putting solar panels on the roof and do the same thing. He knows someone who could do it so he is going to see if there is any discount for buying two lots.

The only thing with solar panels is I would want to somehow store that power and use it in the evening too, I assume that is going to take up a fair amount of space and cost some too.

Thanks for the help, I will post it in there too.

Cheers!

Ectophile

alarge wrote: »

The only thing with solar panels is I would want to somehow store that power and use it in the evening too, I assume that is going to take up a fair amount of space and cost some too.

Cheers!

That's already in the "early adopter" stage. Tesla (the electric car company) are starting to sell boxes of lithium ion batteries, which hang on the wall. Other companies are also entering the market.

In a few years, it could be cheap enough to go mainstream.

alarge

Just had a reply from Avanti gas...

Potentially free underground install (depending on site survey)
27ppl excl VAT (5%) fixed for the 2 year contract
£110 p/a standing charge for underground tank

I asked about any price increases depending on actual consumption and they said "The prices quoted are not dependent on your consumption. The 27 Pence Per litre is fixed for the full 2 years of the agreement therefore your price would not increase during the 2 year supply agreement."

Seems like not such a bad deal really considering the outlay of buying and installing the tank ourselves would be close to £2000 if not more!

LittleVermin

alarge wrote: »

Just had a reply from Avanti gas...

Potentially free underground install (depending on site survey)
27ppl excl VAT (5%) fixed for the 2 year contract
£110 p/a standing charge for underground tank

I asked about any price increases depending on actual consumption and they said "The prices quoted are not dependent on your consumption. The 27 Pence Per litre is fixed for the full 2 years of the agreement therefore your price would not increase during the 2 year supply agreement."

Seems like not such a bad deal really considering the outlay of buying and installing the tank ourselves would be close to £2000 if not more!

This seems OK. But there have been problems with people with underground tanks wanting to switch. I cannot remember which the original installer was or the intended incoming supplier - but the post (or posts) are in the bulk LPG forum (the 'sticky' at/near the top): use "Search this thread". The problem was not lack of testing but the initial set-up. Maybe you'd post your Avanti offer there too, please?

J_B

LittleVermin wrote: »

This seems OK. But there have been problems with people with underground tanks wanting to switch.

We had an underground tank installed by Calor in 2010 (?), swapped to Avanti in 2013 and then to Flogas (through Woldlink) in 2015.
We have had no issues.