Clocking in machine fast

TELLIT01

Cycrow wrote: »

It got so bad once there was a 20min difference between the clocks, so for my 15 minute break i had to return 5 minutes before i left

Sounds like the Monty Python sketch (I think Monty Python anyway) where the characters were going on about how much worse it was in their day "I had to get up before I'd gone to bed..."

RichardD1970

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Sounds like the Monty Python sketch (I think Monty Python anyway) where the characters were going on about how much worse it was in their day "I had to get up before I'd gone to bed..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

stator

Hardly helpful replies. Just arrive early doesn't shed any light on the legal situation.
The fact is that everyone is occassionally late, we don't control the roads or public transport system or the millions of factors that could delay you.
But to be docked pay when you are not late, just because their faulty machinery hasn't been fixed. I would be complaining on each and every occassion with a formal letter to HR. They would soon fix it.

bluenoseam

We don't control the roads - but we do control our ability to make it to work in a timely manner. Might just be me, but I was always taught to turn up at work early enough that "minor issues" such as traffic or late running transport become non-issues. To me rocking up at 8.55 to start at 9 is unacceptable because clearly at that point in time a minor issue such as roadworks then inhibits your ability to turn up on time.

The OP's problem is they KNOW the clock is early, it's a known "issue" but what the OP's main problem is would be that they don't understand that the work day goes by the work clock, not their clock. Regardless as to if that clock is correct or not, if that's the clock that judges you then that's the clock you go by in that situation. The OP knew well enough about it by their own admission, I don't want to say it makes their excuses redundant but it kinda does. Unless there's one bus/train per hour then you take the earlier mode of transport, or if you drive/walk/cycle you leave the house earlier - then you're not late.

ohreally

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Lots of people I have worked with arrived and left on the dot

This ^.

When I clocked in/ out, it was done with seconds to spare, culture thing.
On the very odd occasion any of us were a few minutes late the kettle went on and coffee was made, didn't start until wages started.

Edit:http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66663177&postcount=8

stator

bluenoseam wrote: »

We don't control the roads - but we do control our ability to make it to work in a timely manner. Might just be me, but I was always taught to turn up at work early enough that "minor issues" such as traffic or late running transport become non-issues.

And when non-minor issues prevent you being on time, then what?
If a serious crash happens in the road in front of you, you might not be going anywhere for hours.
You want your wages docked for 2hrs late if you were 59 mins late?
And I certainly am not going to turn up for job 15 minutes early every day, what a complete waste of time that would be. You need to value your own life more.

sangie595

lazer wrote: »

I am not sure but I think you could be on to something here depending on your contract.


If your contract says work hour of 9am to 5pm, and you lose 15minutes pay of you clock in after 9am, but does not mention how it measures the time, then you could argue that you have clocked in before 9am (BST).


However if your contract makes reference to the clock in using the time as per the machine, then no, you have no comeback.


As an aside, if you are on minimum wage, it is illegal to dock 15minutes of pay for being 1 minute late.

I am not sure where you are authoratatively getting this legal advice from, but it wouldn't be correct. Contracts do not need to specify clocking in at all. If your employer tells you to clock on, that is what you do. If they tell you to fill in a timesheet, that is what you do. Absolutely no reason to specify this in the contract.

And most employers would use a pay period reference. It isn't reasonable to expect a payroll based on minutes. Whilst there is clear case law that says that docking, say, an hour for a minute late is not fair, it is accepted that 15 minutes is a reasonable period to conduct payroll calculations on. So minimum wage or not, if you are late you loose 15 minutes or you make up 15 minutes.

This isn't rocket science. Yes, people don't have control over roads, traffic, or transport. But employers don't pay you to be " on the way " either. If you aren't in work you don't get paid. It is that simple. The reason you aren't in work is not relevant. It might be an understandable grievance if the clock was wrong one day or one week, and was otherwise at the correct time. That would be worth complaining about of the result was that you were late when in fact you were not. But the OP says this is always the case, it has been for two years, so really, not that hard to deal with.

daytona0

stator wrote: »

Hardly helpful replies. Just arrive early doesn't shed any light on the legal situation.
The fact is that everyone is occassionally late, we don't control the roads or public transport system or the millions of factors that could delay you.
But to be docked pay when you are not late, just because their faulty machinery hasn't been fixed. I would be complaining on each and every occassion with a formal letter to HR. They would soon fix it.

I like how the default position to take is that THEIR measure of time is incorrect! Why can't the phone's measure of time be incorrect?

Unless UK law requires that employers follow the same times as listed on the mobile phone (which may be fairly accurate, but not likely to be as accurate as the strontium lattice clock) then I don't see any beef.

MAYBE you could get away with it for the first week when you don't really know how things work. But to be an employee for 2+ years and even have the time difference figured out is a bit silly.

bluenoseam

stator wrote: »

And when non-minor issues prevent you being on time, then what?
If a serious crash happens in the road in front of you, you might not be going anywhere for hours.
You want your wages docked for 2hrs late if you were 59 mins late?
And I certainly am not going to turn up for job 15 minutes early every day, what a complete waste of time that would be. You need to value your own life more.

When non-minor issues prevent me from being on time I expect my employer to be understanding, realising that on balance if they're unfortunate it happens maybe 2-3 times a year. For the number of times I'm "early" or stick around to do something beyond shift end it more than balances out.

As for valuation of my own life, that's not really going to be a concern for me - I do value my own life more than this makes out. However there's also something that you're overlooking, the act of being early to one's place of work does not denote the act of starting work early. I'll put it this way, I value more the fact that those occasions where I am late (which are few & far between) are treated more with acceptance rather than grief. If avoiding any aggro for timekeeping costs me 15m & a coffee per shift then hey, I'll take that. I guess it may seem boring or dull, but well, in the end it's not like an extra 15 minutes at home is going to make an overall difference to my health & well being. (Well, it may actually reduce the stress I'd get if I was late every day!)

Lateness is unprofessional & rude - the reality being if I was consistently late for my shift I'd expect to hear about it quickly & lose my job soon thereafter. One can accept unforeseen circumstances on occasion, but the reality is it can't be acceptable for consistently being late.

sangie595

bluenoseam wrote: »

the reality being if I was consistently late for my shift I'd expect to hear about it quickly & lose my job soon thereafter. One can accept unforeseen circumstances on occasion, but the reality is it can't be acceptable for consistently being late.

An excellent point, given that the OP only really needs to post this "problem" if it is a problem; and the only way it gets to be a problem is if they are consistently late. Let's face it - if you have a fixed start time, and you consistently arrive at a point in time which is 2 minutes and 15 seconds or so "early" (by your phone), then the issue isn't the time that the clocking in clock shows. It is the thin ice that your are skating on. Two minutes and 15 seconds doesn't allow for a seconds delay at any point in the journey towards that clock. Even five minutes before your starting time is playing a risky game, but if 2 minutes and 15 seconds is that important, one is playing with fire.