Letter from Wright Hassall acting as POPLA

Coupon-mad

That's good.

I would quote a - e in section 7.3 from the BPA CoP, about landowner authority.

I did find some more quotes from the POPLA Lead Adjudicator yesterday, some of which might be good to add in. He even makes it clear that a keeper cannot be assumed to be a driver (just in case WH try that trick, after all, the IAS does):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=70494910#post70494910

Also, did Armtrac argue in the rejection letter and/or evidence pack in 2015 that the construction/rationale for their charge was as a GPEOL/damages or trespass? What was their version of how the charge was worked out or what it represented?

You could use the quotes from the Supreme Court about the construction of the charge at the time showing whether it was valid or just a standard contract trying to impose an unenforceable penalty.

You said this (below) but in fact the concept of this charge being based upon a GPEOL might be useful to you, depending on Armtrac's position as stated last year.

Therefore my appeal should not be judged on the GPEOL reason alone.

If they argued GPEOL or damages for loss or 'trespass' in the 'evidence pack' they have shot themselves in the foot and cannot recover this charge now. But don't expect WH to do that argument for you - the burden is on both parties to show how the case law supports their position.

rachieb77

Thanks Coupon-mad - I submitted my final response last night, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Wish they had set an auto-response on their email mailbox to confirm receipt, since we can't contact them to confirm this in any way!

Scrimpette

What happens if you genuinely don't receive a letter from them and are therefore rendered incapable of responding??

I have been awaiting resolution of a PCN pending Bevis that's been suspended since early last year. I have been expecting one of these letters to arrive, but as yet, I don't have one. I've been following developments so as to stay abreast of current strategies in readiness for my own fight. I had begun to think that it might have just gone away!!

Firstly, how can they (WH - for POPLA) impose such tight turnaround/response times, and secondly, what grounds for reassessment are there if you are not given the appropriate time/ opportunity to respond when they are unable to evidence receipt of these letters issued? I understand the burden of proof is on both parties, but surely it would be my word against theirs? I'm concerned that ALL my initially submitted evidence won't be considered if my appeal is lumped in with all other GPEOLs and I fail to resubmit before the hammer falls.

Also, what can we do about the non-independence of WH in acting for POPLA? I'm currently dealing with paperwork from them in regard to a debt collection on a PCN issued to my parents - independent my foot!!

Coupon-mad

Scrimpette wrote: »

What happens if you genuinely don't receive a letter from them and are therefore rendered incapable of responding??

I have been awaiting resolution of a PCN pending Bevis that's been suspended since early last year. I have been expecting one of these letters to arrive, but as yet, I don't have one. I've been following developments so as to stay abreast of current strategies in readiness for my own fight. I had begun to think that it might have just gone away!!

Firstly, how can they (WH - for POPLA) impose such tight turnaround/response times, and secondly, what grounds for reassessment are there if you are not given the appropriate time/ opportunity to respond when they are unable to evidence receipt of these letters issued? I understand the burden of proof is on both parties, but surely it would be my word against theirs? I'm concerned that ALL my initially submitted evidence won't be considered if my appeal is lumped in with all other GPEOLs and I fail to resubmit before the hammer falls.

Also, what can we do about the non-independence of WH in acting for POPLA? I'm currently dealing with paperwork from them in regard to a debt collection on a PCN issued to my parents - independent my foot!!

This is rachieb77's thread so not the place for such discussion.

This is a more suitable place for you to post, a general thread about the issue:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5445939

and read this one:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5449899

Not everyone has a letter yet. I may be wrong but I think maybe the oldest ones from over a year ago (lodged at POPLA in Feb, March or April), might be done first.

Parking-Prankster

Scrimpette wrote: »

What happens if you genuinely don't receive a letter from them and are therefore rendered incapable of responding??

I'm helping with one such case at the moment, so we should know in a few days time.

Grandad123

I'm only guessing, but if I was WH, I would test the water with a selection of cases first, to see what they are dealing with.


Perhaps that is why there was such a short deadline for new evidence.


As London Councils found it difficult to make money from the appeals, and the Ombudsman wouldn't touch these with a bargepole, WH have to do these on the cheap.


It depends what the deal is. Paid by appeal or a cut of any invoices collected.


At the end of the day, the decision is not binding, so if enough people don't get a satisfactory hearing they will go to court. The system will get bunged up again which is what POPLA was created to stop.

Grandad123

Apologies to Rachie.


Didn't mean to post above on this thread, but it was late at night!

pappa_golf

Grandad123 wrote: »

I'm only guessing, but if I was WH, I would test the water with a selection of cases first, to see what they are dealing with.


Perhaps that is why there was such a short deadline for new evidence.


As London Councils found it difficult to make money from the appeals, and the Ombudsman wouldn't touch these with a bargepole, WH have to do these on the cheap.


It depends what the deal is. Paid by appeal or a cut of any invoices collected.


At the end of the day, the decision is not binding, so if enough people don't get a satisfactory hearing they will go to court. The system will get bunged up again which is what POPLA was created to stop.

POPLa is independent of the BPA and parking companies , if this was the case (cut of invoices collected) then it would be illegal.


remember , even if an appeal is dismissed , there is a huge stumbling block between then and invoices , its called the CC , lets say only 50% of companies want to go that far , and lets say there is a 50/50 win /loose situation , WH would only get 25% of the invoices.


however the average "joe punter" when confronted with a solicitor headed notepaper as opposed to a POPLa one , might just stump up

Marktheshark

Why are people even contemplating playing this game with this comapny.
They do not meet any of the requirements as an independent dispute resolution service.
Talk about playing with fire.

pappa_golf

agreed , deny them the chance , run this to court (perhaps only 40% would go that far - PE cases?) then ask for a proper independent appeal system , clearly telling the judge the whole story ,original POPLa bailout, debt collection company chosen for appeals etc etc.