Poor workmanship and damp issues in my newly refurbished flat

TranceNRG

Hello, I'm after a bit of of advice. I bought a 2 bed, garden flat last year and did a complete refurbishment using a builder/contractor I found on mybuilder. The builder had good reviews and I also visited one of his jobs. It took his guys months to finish the job and most of it was finally completed recently but I am not happy with the workmanship and the bigger issue of damp patches on couple of walls.

1. During renovations there were a number of things his men got wrong but one that's annoying me the most at the moment is the installation of the wooden flooring in the living room - The sub floor wasn't level so as agreed they tried to level using plywood and self levelling compound. But I think they did a poor job and the sub floor not level at all. There are 3,4 mm gaps between the floor and skirting boards in some parts. Also when I walk on the floor, it bounces in some parts and in one particular area, it makes an annoying squeaky noise in one particular area. I am pretty sure this is the area where there were 2 bits of underlay joining each other but there was a bump as the fitter didn't cut them to the right size when installing. I asked him about this bump in the underlay and the guy said it will be OK and will settle down with the wooden flooring on top, after a couple of weeks. It has been about 2 months now and things haven't got better.

2.
Last week I noticed signs of damp on the bottom of walls (next to the door frame) just above the skirting boards. The paint is starting to feel off and walls feel cold. I noticed this in my 2nd bedroom and the kitchen. The thing is I only just got a new kitchen and new carpet in bedroom so not sure if there's anything I can do without damaging them? I had damp issues in my living room and I got it damp proofed but I didn't think I had any damp in my kitchen or the bedrooms. I was looking at the pictures I took of the flat before the refurbishment and I can see signs of damp in the same spots (paint peeling off and previous timber door frames damaged) but I didn't much about damp issues back then.

I am frustrated that my builder and his men didn't advise me on the damp issues which would have been evident to them. Maybe they didn't know what they were doing or they didn't care. Also I know my builders men used bonding plaster when re-plastering the flat and one of the builders that came to my flat recently said, bonding plaster shouldn't have been used in damp areas and that they should have used sand and cement in these areas instead. Is this true?

I haven't mad the final payment yet (about £1200) but wondering if I should withhold some of the payment because of poor workmanship shown and the fact that he didn't alert me to damp issues and used the wrong materials? If I withhold the money, I know there will be a big argument but do you think it's fair to do this? if he goes to small claims court, do I have any ground for withholding money? I want to be fair and don't want any trouble, but I'm fed up with all the poor workmanship I have encountered and think there should be a penalty.

Would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks.

marksoton

TranceNRG wrote: »

The sub floor wasn't level so as agreed they tried to level using plywood and self levelling compound.

SL compound is great stuff but only if you shutter it to the required level like any Cementitious material. And for a decent finish you can't just use normal ply. It needs to be pourform or similar and properly installed.

If a sub-floor isn't level i've no idea why they wouldn't just screed it to make it so...

Doozergirl

Yes, the other builder is correct that they shouldn't use bonding in damp areas. And yes, if I spotted it, I would look at dealing with it, but it isn't going to be something that comes for free - you need to consider that if you didn't spec it, it won't be included.

There is a bit of a question over integrity - highlightig it early will save money later.

I don't believe in damp-proofing particularly, I believe in finding the source and treating it. Applying render to a wall is not treating the source, it's treating the symptoms. Find the source, dry the area, treat it like the rest of the wall if possible.

The floor isn't right and I would expect it right before you pay.

It shouldn't be about a fight though, it's about giving someone a chance to put things right, first of all. Your call should be asking them to address the problems.

TranceNRG

Thanks for the replies.

I didn't mention anything about damp to the builder at the start but if alerted me to the issues, I would have paid him extra to use sand/cement. In any case, I paid for materials and only paid him for labour. At least if he made me aware of the issue, I would have got a damp proofing company to look at these areas and got them fixed.

When I got specialist damp proofing company to damp proof the living room, they hacked off plaster and and there was a lot of mess and I can't go through that again in my kitchen and bedroom considering I've got a new kitchen and new carpet.

I hope it can be fixed from outside without having to damage the walls inside. I've got 3 damp proofing companies coming to have a look this week and next week so will see what they say.

I've told the builder that I'm not happy that the floor is too 'bouncy' and makes a loud noise when I walk over one part.
I am not sure they can do anything about it now. It's an Boen Oak wooden floor (click system). It would be a nightmare to remove the planks now I think. I might have to just live with that floor.

If you were in my position would you withhold some money?

Doozergirl

Damp proofing is BS.

Find the problem, deal with it.

Damp proofing is like expensive pain killers. You can mask the pain with it, but the best thing is to find the source of the pain, treat it and then expensive pain killers aren't necessary anymore.

You have three companies coming out to sell you damp proofing. All of them will be expensive, all will talk about about failed damp proof courses, yet your Victorian building stood for 120 years without a damp problem before?

It is almost guaranteed to be something that can be solved quite easily.

Would I withold payment? Only if I were left with something unacceptable. Or if you can compromise.

Negotiate. You might be better off with the problems solved than the remaining money in your pocket.

TranceNRG

I am well aware of the scams in the damp industry and I am not sure it's as simple as you say to find the problem and fix. I had a building survey done when I bought the flat and the surveyor recommended a damp survey in the living room as there were signs of damp hence I got the living room damp proofed. There were 2 walls with 2 big wet patches in the living room that didn't dry out but since I got that plastered with waterproof plaster, it's no longer damp.

How can I find the source of the problem? Who do I call if it's not damp proofing companies?

I really wish it was possible to find the external cause and fix it without having to damage what's inside.

Actually, I do remember the surveyor mentioning in the report that the external ground was higher and this is possibly letting moisture come through the walls?

Problem is I have concrete blocks and nice bricks on the ground outside. So I would have to take them out to lower the ground.

The higher ground outside would explain the damp in the kitchen but it doesn't explain damp in 2nd bedroom as it's about 2 ft higher than the ground. So maybe somehow water is coming through the bricks.

You don't think I should withhold money due to the fact that the builder and his men didn't alert me to the damp issues (it would have been very noticeable) and used bonding plaster in damp areas?

Regarding the wooden floor, obviously I'd like it fixed but I don't know if they can now. You'd have to rip out the whole floor and skirting boards to attempt to fix it I'd imagine?

Doozergirl

Higher ground level is exactly what is likely to cause damp.

Google 'french drain' for a cheap solution. You should pay for that or DIY. Your builder should do remedial fixing once it is dry - as a fair compromise. He could have avoided that if the dampness was spotted.

Patches high up can be penetrating damp (blocked or broken guttering, poor pointing or cracked render outside) or thermal bridging causing condensation, not damp.

A damp survey should be done by a total independent that doesn't sell DPCs.

A decent builder will also find what is causing the problem. You should give your builder a chance to find it.

TranceNRG

That's excellent advice. Thanks very much. I will research in to French drains. I am planning on getting my garden done soon so maybe I'll ask the same guys to install this french drain around my house (I guess they will have to remove the bricks/concrete blocks on the ground to do that?)

I will also look to get an independent surveyor but I think they are pretty expensive but it has to be done.

cheers!

Hoploz

Doozergirl gives good advice.

The way you describe your relationship with the builder seems to me to be that you asked him to do particular jobs, and you provided the materials and he provided the labour. Presumably it was done this way to cost you less.

Next time it might be better to tell your builder the full end result you are looking for, and trust him to make his own professional diagnosis and suggestions, and then provide a quote accordingly.

He probably thought you wanted a cheap job

TranceNRG

No I didn't want a 'cheap' job. I told him from the begining I wanted the flat refurbished to a high standard. Obviously I specified what I wanted done at a high level (i.e New kitchen, new bathroom, remove old boiler/water tank install new combi boiler plus replace piping and radiators, replastering, painting, etc)

He wanted me to buy materials.

TranceNRG

One more thing..

Since I got a completely new hot water system installed (New Worcester combi boiler, piping and radiators) should the builder (who hired a gas engineer to install the boiler) give me instructions on what to check/replace with the boiler or radiators and how often?

I'm quite new to all this (although learnt a lot in the last few months) and would have presumed you'd normally get some instructions on what to do, check etc when you get a new hot water system installed?

Builder is saying he never gives any of his clients instructions after a new boiler installation.