First time buyer - survey renegotiation help

rg184

Hi All,

First time posting here. We are currently in process of buying a house and have had our survey come back. We are trying to figure out how serious issues are, how much we can realistically negotiate on the price based on findings.

We've had an offer accepted or a townhouse with garden built in the 60's. Prior to the survey we knew the following:
- Kitchen and bathroom need modernisation. We may even build a new kitchen in the utility.
- Backyard fence needs to be updated.
- The house is on a red route.
- The house needs general redecorating (painting, filling small cracks, etc.)

Because of this the offer accepted was £18k under the asking price OR 5% less than the asking price. Since the offer was accepted we have had further doubts on the level of work that will actually be required to bring it up to where we'd like it.

The survey has not brought up anything urgent, however there are a few points that raise concern:

1. The biggest is that they have found an asbestos ceiling in the garage. The surveyor has said it is 5% asbestos cement ceiling that is in good condition. He does not see it as a risk as there are no visible dust/fibers arising from it. There are however some asbestos insulation on pipes in the garage that may contain greater content, but again the surveyor was not as concerned because it is undisturbed. He thinks we can leave it as is and just paint/board it.

We have decided we will test further and get quotes on removal of the asbestos. But question to the group is how serious is this? The worry is also that there may asbestos in the rest of the house (though the surveyor has not flagged anything), should we get thorough testing done?

2. Dislodged roof tiles (3 story building so a large ladder or scaffolding is needed to remove) and mossy roof tiles.

3. Roof in back is flat felt roof. Currently in good condition as he can tell (but was not able to access due to height). It's 15 years old and he thinks we should budget to replace it in 5 yrs. How long do felt roofs usually last?

4. There are 3 or 4 windows with broken seals that have condensation occurring creating mold in between the double glazing. We've been told you just need to replace the glass and re-seal which is fairly cost effect. Is that true?

5. Some wood rot in the front conservatory and garage frame. Seems minor and just needing to replace the rotted bits.

6. Electric is old and he is recommending getting it checked by a specialist. Everything works so is this needed?

7. In the utility room where we would add the kitchen we will need to bring the drainage forward and may need to increase waste pipes. Is this of concern/expensive?

There are a few other minor bits, but these are the ones we're concerned about and are getting further info on.

My main question is are there big red flags here and enough justification for further reduction in price?

Thanks all.

melstar11

What is the valuation? If it's the sale price agreed, then that's a fair price.

You've already negotiated a discount - I don't believe the things the surveyor has pointed out will cost you more than the saving you've made. You can't ask the vendor to knock another X off because you might need to redo the flat roof in five years time. You might not need to do the work for ten or more for starters. Surveyors always cover their backsides. Owning a house is a responsibility and there is always something you'll need to do to it. Wanting to do work is another thing all together - you have to budget for that. You can't expect the vendor to pay for you to make the place exactly how you want it.

rg184

Thanks for the quick response melstar.

Much of that makes sense. We are going in with the mindset of needing to do work to make it as our own, and do not expect the seller to fully discount for that.

However there are certain things that I think are quite basic for all and not necessarily specific to us. The key area of concern is the asbestos. And if we are double thinking about it, then I imagine we'll go through the same thing when we try to sell the place.

Plus there is stuff like condensation in windows and roof tiles falling off that may be simple but stuff that should be resolved. These are obviously much smaller things though in terms of cost (unless there are underlying issues we are not aware of).

Thanks,

antrobus

rg184 wrote: »

...My main question is are there big red flags here and enough justification for further reduction in price? ...

Nah.

It's all pretty typical for an old house.

Kynthia

You aren't buying a new build so things won't be perfect, plus as things come to the end of their useful life you'll need to do things to maintain the property. So quibbling over a few blown windows and a missing roof tile is petty as they're maintenance. The vendor is selling the house 'as is'. Asbestos sounds scary but virtually every house more than 30 years old had some in it and unless someone has removed it they still do.

G_M

This is useful for you .... as a list of stuff to do when you move in.

rg184 wrote: »

.... We are trying to figure out how serious issues are,
not very
how much we can realistically negotiate on the price based on findings. my view? Zilch.

Because of this the offer accepted was £18k under the asking price OR 5% less than the asking price. Since the offer was accepted we have had further doubts on the level of work that will actually be required to bring it up to where we'd like it.
you want to bring it up to the standard you'd like? That's your business, not the seller's

The survey has not brought up anything urgent, however there are a few points that raise concern:

1. The biggest is that they have found an asbestos ceiling in the garage. The surveyor has said it is 5% asbestos cement ceiling that is in good condition. He does not see it as a risk as there are no visible dust/fibers arising from it. There are however some asbestos insulation on pipes in the garage that may contain greater content, but again the surveyor was not as concerned because it is undisturbed. He thinks we can leave it as is and just paint/board it.
so leave it alone. This is a non-issue.

We have decided we will test further and get quotes on removal of the asbestos.
your choice. Your cost.
But question to the group is how serious is this?
surveyor said: "no risk." "good condition."" not concered". So any costs you incur are down to you.

The worry is also that there may asbestos in the rest of the house (though the surveyor has not flagged anything), should we get thorough testing done? You could say the same about any of the millions of properties built between 1945 - 1990 (aprox).

2. Dislodged roof tiles (3 story building so a large ladder or scaffolding is needed to remove) and mossy roof tiles.
moss looks nice on a roof. Some say it should be removed - your choice. How many tiles? They cost about £1 each+ the man with the ladder. This is just routine maintenance.

3. Roof in back is flat felt roof. Currently in good condition as he can tell (but was not able to access due to height). It's 15 years old and he thinks we should budget to replace it in 5 yrs. How long do felt roofs usually last?
Depends on
* quality/thickness of felt
* prevailing weather conditions
* whether walked on
* whether it's felt or a different material
etc
I put a new felt roof on my garage 19 years ago (middle quality as garage).It appears fine and I suspect will last 5, 10? more years? Hard to say.

Repair/replace it when it leaks. Routine.

4. There are 3 or 4 windows with broken seals that have condensation occurring creating mold in between the double glazing. We've been told you just need to replace the glass and re-seal which is fairly cost effect. Is that true?
Yes. You can choose to do this or replace the whole window. Your choice. Or live with it as is till you have money saved up......

5. Some wood rot in the front conservatory and garage frame. Seems minor and just needing to replace the rotted bits.
Spend a weekend :
* scrape out rotten wood
* add wood hardener
* add wood filler
* paint
Job done.

6. Electric is old and he is recommending getting it checked by a specialist. Everything works so is this needed?
Your choice. What does the consumer unit look like? Old fashioned fuse box with wire fuses? Or 'modern' style CU with trip switches?

7. In the utility room where we would add the kitchen we will need to bring the drainage forward and may need to increase waste pipes. Is this of concern/expensive?
Certainky not a justification to negotiate price!
Get a builder round to quote for the job.

There are a few other minor bits, but these are the ones we're concerned about and are getting further info on.

My main question is are there big red flags here and enough justification for further reduction in price?

Thanks all.

No.

dc197

As above. These are minor routine maintenance jobs which you will do at your expense as part of the joy of home ownership.
Do not touch the asbestos and it will not touch you.

Debtslayer

By the sounds of your first post where you state: you are having second thoughts about the level of work required I would guess you're having second thoughts about buying the house?
If you are then it's better to pull out now than to get in any deeper
If in wrong and you're not and this is definitely the house for you can you afford to have the work done? Havd you budgeted how much new kitchen etc will cost to bring it up to your standard?
The items in the survey are not in my opinion any reason to be negotiating any further reduction.
Most of it is general upkeep of owning a house, wether it's now of in 5 years time the work needs doing

rg184

Thanks all. Not the answers I was hoping for but helpful nonetheless. I think in terms of asbestos we'd still look to get it removed. Though I don't mind taking risks even if it increases health risks by 5% it's a chance I would not take if not necessary. And if a pipe bursts or work is needed then it will be an issue.

G_M - Electric is old fashioned I believe. Standard fuse box adapted with pop out circuit breakers.

Debtslayer - kind of but still keen on getting the place, especially because we're living with the in-laws at the moment! Much of this is not new and we went in for the potential of the place, not the current state. Based on seeing 100's of places it feels like we're getting good value in terms of square footage, location, and big windows (all of which were on top of our list). I guess it's a better value because it needs some TLC and does not have the greatest curb appeal.

Digressing a bit from the survey I guess outside of the asbestos a concern for us is a comment the surveyor has made around being on a red route being detrimental to future sale in terms of value and desire. And that the 1960's townhouse style of the place is less desirable in our area (Bromley).

Which does bring me to a separate question to you all. Thoughts on living in a red route? Seems busy during the day but weekend has been fine. I am keen to visit on a weekday evening to see what it's like. However have read that value can be 10% - 30% living on a main road when you resale. Is this true? Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks all.

davidmcn

rg184 wrote: »

I think in terms of asbestos we'd still look to get it removed. Though I don't mind taking risks even if it increases health risks by 5% it's a chance I would not take if not necessary.

It increases health risks by 0%, unless you disturb it. Leaving it alone (unless you've got a reason to mess with it) is probably the best thing to do.

As for the red route, I doubt there's anything specific to red routes other than the inconvenience of not being able to park or load - otherwise main roads in general will put people off. But if you don't mind then I suppose you're getting better value for money.

Kynthia

Would you pay more for the property if it wasn't on a red route? Have you found comparable properties for sale for the same price that aren't on a red route or are they advertised for more money? I'm guessing that the property is a little less than others for this reason and the same will be the case when you sell.


Yes there will be people who would never buy on a red route, but many do if the property meets their needs and they can't afford the equivalent property elsewhere. Or there may be some that aren't bothered by it. You're considering it, the vendors bought it, and all the neighbours bought there's, so clearly there is a market for these properties.