Aviva/Norwich Union Section 32 Buyout policy holders?

towag

chrisuk1 wrote: »

Today I received the back payment part of my pension to my 60th birthday. I have not yet received a breakdown of this payment so I do not know how much tax was taken. I am a not a tax payer and so I need to claim the tax back. Hopefully Aviva will post the information to me soon. If not ANOTHER phone call will have to be made!! Obviously I am very happy to get this money, but I am furious with Aviva for the stress they have put me through for the last 4 years!!

I will never ever take out any sort of insurance policy with Aviva again! And I have warned all my friends and family about them!!

You won't be the only one....:T
No good hoping... The only way to get anything done in this world is to do it yourself... I've come to the conclusion that if you don't fight for what is rightfully yours by contact, then its hopeless doing anything or even taking out any pension or insurance with any company, as its never going to pay out as the contract that you agreed to. It is worth nothing...With Aviva, it was all void as soon as you sign the dotted line with Norwich Union... Its always going to be a fight with world giants like Aviva, who I'm informed are a French company originally... When you consider that their CEO, Mark Wilson, who has a vast salary, and which just one month's worth of his salary would more than pay for your pension out right, makes you think what they really get up to behind the scenes, robbing you of what they owe you, after you invested your money, which they in truth gamble with, then hate it when they have to pay out a pittance and come back with "Oh sorry you don't have enough in your fund for us to pay you your pension" ...Yet can easily pay Mr Mark Wilson his ill gotten gains.... Just makes you want to have a fight does it not...??? People just give in too easily these days... Must be something in the water....:cool:

M_j_t

I have now received confirmation that I will be paid from age 60, according to the value of the GMP as at age 60, increasing by 7.5% each year until the full GMP from age 65 is reached.

I can now also say that the other issue re the pre 88 contributions not increasing from age 65 does affect me (although I do have post 88 contributions that will increase at 3% not that far of 50/50).

I do believe that there might just be a smidgeon of a chance that contacting the Pensions Ombudsman had an influence. That is:

• I complained via Aviva's Online Ignore System (officialy they call it it Online Complaints) on 14/02/2017 (15th here).
• I heard nothing and phoned on 6/3/2017, was put through to "the department" after the operative found no evidence of the complaint having been handled. "the department" claimed no knowledge of an Online Complaints system and that "the department (not their department)" had no email. After a second call again acknowledging no knowledge of an Online Complaints system and that the other "the department" had no email. Managed to then get hold of the other "the department" and transferred me. I was given the non-existent email and re-sent the complaint (still 6/3/2017).
• On 30/3/2017 after hearing nothing. I raised a complaint with the PensionsOmbudsman, the original complaints and an additional complaint regarding Aviva not fulfilling promises as per ()http://www.aviva.co.uk/existing-customers/complaints-contacts.html :-

Our promise to you
We want to give you great customer service but sometimes things do go wrong. We can usually resolve most issues straightaway, so please get in touch with your usual contact such as your broker or the Aviva team dealing with your claim or the sale or servicing of your policy.
You can also complain online using our complaint form where you can send us photos and files to help us understand your issues.

What you'll need to tell us so that we can help you

• Your personal details
• Your policy/claim details
• What's gone wrong
• What you want us to do to put things right

What we'll do to resolve your complaint

• We'll get it to the right person
• We'll be in touch with you as soon as we can and let you know what will happen next
• We'll treat your complaint fairly
• We'll resolve your complaint as soon as possible and we will try to do this within 10 working days
• For more complex issues it's likely that we will need longer to look into what's happened and we may ask you for further information to help us reach a decision
• We'll give you regular updates
• And once we've dealt with your complaint, we'll go back and see what we can learn from your experience.

• The Ombudsman responds on 31/3/2017, requesting additional info (I get it on 1/4/2017).
• I send further info on 1/4/2017 (effectively 3/4/2017 due to weekend).
• 4/4/2017 I get email from Aviva in response to complaint of 15/2/2017, dated 3/4/2017.

3 April 2017

Dear X

In response to your complaint

Thank you for your letter of 15 February 2017. I hope you will accept my apologies for the time it’s taken to fully investigate your concerns.
I’m sorry you do not feel the options we’ve presented to you accurately reflect those offered in the policy document. While I’m unable to comment on another customer’s policy, I’m can write to you regarding your plan and its benefits.

Our letter dated 21 January 2017 (reference PS/Aviva/alpha/claim) is a preliminary selection pack designed to help us to provide you with a relevant maturity quote.

Once this is completed and returned, we send tailored quotations to demonstrate the actual benefits available. I’ve included a maturity quote which I hope will cover the points you’ve raised.

Your redress policy ET?????? is shown in coverage 3 and I’ve included two options. One for the entire amount as Tax Free Cash (TFC) and a second as a yearly income with spouses benefit with no TFC.

Additional Complaints
Our records show anniversary certificates previously issued to you have not always included the values you would expect to see. I’m aware of previous system issues affecting these documents and I’m sorry our letters were issued with missing information.

You are correct in thinking we will defer your benefits to age 75 if we don’t hear anything from you. It is our standard procedure to alter retirement dates automatically, as we believe it helps most customers if we do not insist on a form to do this.

It does not mean your benefits are ‘locked in’ until you reach 75, they are available at any time one you have passed your selected retirement age.

Bearing this in mind I do not believe there is a need to offer or extent the amount of time we will wait before making this change.

I’ve checked with our actuarial department, and can confirm policy ET?????? is, as you suspected, not funded. I’m sorry you have not been sent this information previously and again hope the quotes I have provided demonstrate the Guaranteed Minimum Pension will be available from age 65.

I’ve considered your request for an award for distress and inconvenience, but
I’m unable to offer such a payment. If you believe there are additional circumstances I should consider please feel free to contact me.

What happens next
Thanks for taking the time to bring your concerns to my attention. I really hope this letter has answered all your questions. If not, please get in touch with me and I’ll be happy to talk you through any additional information.

You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge, but you must do so within six months of the date of this letter.

If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.
For more information, the online version of their consumer leaflet can be found at the following address:
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/consumer-leaflet.htm

If you’d like me to send you a hard copy of this leaflet in the post please let me know.
We’re here to help
If you’ve any questions, please call me on 0800 260 0370.

Yours sincerely
Nathan Worton
Customer Relations Manager
Pension Service Complaints

Although the above does not directly state an obligation to pay from the benefit date (maturity date), the implication is clear that the obligation exists.

I'm relatively happy, the redress amount has increased from just under 7K to just under 8.5K (if taken as a cash free lump sum).

I guess one could easily conclude that:-

Our letter dated 21 January 2017 (reference PS/Aviva/alpha/claim) is a preliminary selection pack designed to help us to provide you with a relevant maturity quote.

Once this is completed and returned, we send tailored quotations to demonstrate the actual benefits available. I’ve included a maturity quote which I hope will cover the points you’ve raised.

is an unnecessary delay and/or an obfuscation and/or a means of further gaining by reducing the cost of the annuities that they have to buy, due to their gathering personal information.
Perhaps I should consider selling them my personal information (health status) say 50% of the reduction of the cost to be applied to increase the annuity.

towag

M_j_t wrote: »

I have now received confirmation that I will be paid from age 60, according to the value of the GMP as at age 60, increasing by 7.5% each year until the full GMP from age 65 is reached.

I can now also say that the other issue re the pre 88 contributions not increasing from age 65 does affect me (although I do have post 88 contributions that will increase at 3% not that far of 50/50).

I do believe that there might just be a smidgeon of a chance that contacting the Pensions Ombudsman had an influence. That is:

• I complained via Aviva's Online Ignore System (officialy they call it it Online Complaints) on 14/02/2017 (15th here).
• I heard nothing and phoned on 6/3/2017, was put through to "the department" after the operative found no evidence of the complaint having been handled. "the department" claimed no knowledge of an Online Complaints system and that "the department (not their department)" had no email. After a second call again acknowledging no knowledge of an Online Complaints system and that the other "the department" had no email. Managed to then get hold of the other "the department" and transferred me. I was given the non-existent email and re-sent the complaint (still 6/3/2017).
• On 30/3/2017 after hearing nothing. I raised a complaint with the PensionsOmbudsman, the original complaints and an additional complaint regarding Aviva not fulfilling promises as per ()http://www.aviva.co.uk/existing-customers/complaints-contacts.html :-

• The Ombudsman responds on 31/3/2017, requesting additional info (I get it on 1/4/2017).
• I send further info on 1/4/2017 (effectively 3/4/2017 due to weekend).
• 4/4/2017 I get email from Aviva in response to complaint of 15/2/2017, dated 3/4/2017.

Although the above does not directly state an obligation to pay from the benefit date (maturity date), the implication is clear that the obligation exists.

I'm relatively happy, the redress amount has increased from just under 7K to just under 8.5K (if taken as a cash free lump sum).

I guess one could easily conclude that:-
is an unnecessary delay and/or an obfuscation and/or a means of further gaining by reducing the cost of the annuities that they have to buy, due to their gathering personal information.
Perhaps I should consider selling them my personal information (health status) say 50% of the reduction of the cost to be applied to increase the annuity.

I guess that anyone could really conclude anything if you really put your mind to it... Ho hum....:D

sandsy

Another POS decision, this one in Aviva's favour:

https://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/PO-10208.pdf

M_j_t

It appears that the plan in this case was different to Ombudsman’s Determination (reference PO-2269) (the previous Determination)
according to :-

The wording of the policy conditions are different to those from the previous
Determination. This is because the underlying product was originally sold by
another company. Mr N’s policy is less ambiguous and as such it is reasonable to
reach a different outcome than the Ombudsman did in the previous Determination.

and more specifically

Section 16 of the Buyout Plan Conditions sets out the NRD conditions. Section 16 (a)
says “the related Normal Retirement Date does not imply a binding Pension Date”.
Section 16(d) then goes on to say that “[Aviva] reserves the right not to allow the
Policyholder to choose a particular Pension Date if [Aviva] in its absolute discretion
determines that the total value of the Retirement Benefit Values under such policies
at that Pension Date would not be sufficient to ensure payment of the Guaranteed
Minimum Pensions.”

chrisuk1

chrisuk1 wrote: »

Today I received the back payment part of my pension to my 60th birthday. I have not yet received a breakdown of this payment so I do not know how much tax was taken. I am a not a tax payer and so I need to claim the tax back. Hopefully Aviva will post the information to me soon. If not ANOTHER phone call will have to be made!! Obviously I am very happy to get this money, but I am furious with Aviva for the stress they have put me through for the last 4 years!!

I will never ever take out any sort of insurance policy with Aviva again! And I have warned all my friends and family about them!!

Well after a long battle with the HMRC who appeared to have trouble understanding that the lump sum from Aviva was back-dated income to November 2013, I have finally received my tax rebate. At one stage they sent me a tax demand for £1200, this was in addition to the £2000 that Aviva had already deducted in income tax!!:beer:

DMcC94

I have asked this question before but so far I have not had any feedback.
Has anybody coming up to their Benefit date on their policy (for me now 11 months away) been advised by Aviva that their payment will indeed start "on time" or is it the fact that policyholders are still going past their Benefit date with no attempt by Aviva to start payments (ie still trying to fob people off with the age 65 delay) and then still having to battle Aviva retrospectively to get their pensions started ?

Ian_Macfrugall

Hi Towag I have read many of your posts and have now registered with the forum to be able to ask you a question if I may. Aviva wrote to me recently in advance of my 65 th birthday in November to tell me the value of my section 32 policy and a higher figure for transfer value. They talked about options and included a very detailed questionnaire which I had to complete before they would send me a quotation. Cutting to the chase I phoned them up and told them they were responsible for providing me with a guaranteed pension and I was not interested in any other option. This was conceded but they are now saying that as my funds are all pre 88 the pension they will pay will not be increased annually despite the policy suggesting it will. The reason is that the value of the fund is not enough to cover the guaranteed pension let alone the indexing. I seem to recall you had a similar problem which you were going to contest. Did you do so and did you have any success? Thanks.

SJWilliams

Hello Mr Harris..... a couple of days ago, I used the email address you gave in your forum post of April 2016 to try and contact you. I haven’t had a reply so I’m wondering if, maybe, my email is languishing in your “junk/ spam” box?
I’m looking for the benefit of your help and advice in a fight I’ve been waging against another insurance company for the last 4 years or more...namely Clerical Medical.

I hope to hear from you. Thanks in anticipation..... Steve