Aviva/Norwich Union Section 32 Buyout policy holders?

towag

agarnett wrote: »

Power to your elbow, towag!

That £39BILLION figure is enormous, isn't it?

Do we know the values of the other WP funds Aviva control?

Was your particular fund affected by the 2009 Reattribution fiasco overseen by Claire Spottiswoode i.e. have bribes been offered to the policyholder base (and taken by the majority) in exchange for giving up their rights to inherited estate within your fund?

In the case of my Aviva S32 fund - albeit a policy issued by NU in 2003/4 - they offered a bribe of £900 in 2009 which naturally as someone with inside knowledge of typical late second and early third millennium financial services industry shenanigans I refused. That refusal apparently, as of February 2015, entitles me currently to an enhancement to final bonus of some five thousand pounds (not guaranteed unless I take it of course and give up my GMP rights!)

If I had taken the bribe like most, where would that enhancement be now - still in the fund for the benefit of shareholders not policyholders, or creamed off and invested in your fund perhaps?

My point is, the true size, workings and inter-relationships of these WP funds is secret and is very obviously manipulated, propagandised and now so many have been garnered about them, jealously guarded as Aviva's raison d'être.

My own tentative discussions with PAS & POS & FOS indicate that their staff are oblivious to the history of it, and even Treasury Select Committee have over the years only scratched the surface with their inquiries. That summary contains a broken link but the 2008 report can be found here. These funds are seen by those to whom they are entrusted as their own private pig troughs, whereas the truth is that what's in them is more than 90% ours (the policyholders'). Aviva and the likes have been constantly redefining ownership, largely unchallenged, ever since they brought so many traditional funds from the likes of NU, CU, Morley (a major private sector DB fund manager) and GA together under the weirdly named Aviva banner, especially by those in the industry who receive the news of changes first, and who do know better but choose to keep their heads down. I bet there is some "in plain sight in joke" about what Aviva really means, and you can bet your bottom dollar it never meant "we can be trusted by WP policyholders".

Meantime, a generation of equally oblivious or uncaring FAs have been feeding on the slops at the trough, and prepared to repeat the propoganda to maintain a place for their snouts.

NB All so called IFAs started as tied and restricted in knowledge and products to sell. Many have not moved on much further other than to exploit grandfathering rights to becoming authorised as the latest style of "advisor", and gather together under the protection of membership of networks to keep them kings of their little castles. They would have you believe they are some kind of super-intelligencia keeping their skills honed by CPD, but remind them of their lowly beginnings, and ask why if so clever they never became rocket scientists or engineers or even plumbers originally, they soon pipe down till you've gone. They are all in league in various ways with the biggest players like Aviva. They'd have no business if they couldn't get Aviva to feed them promptly on demand with the standard industry info they ply as "experts". So it is perhaps no wonder that you'll rarely hear a bad word about Aviva from anyone still relying on the industry for a living.

Make no mistake, Aviva is just as nasty as Koch Brothers and will admit nothing unless forced, will seek to claim limitation deadlines at every turn to avoid dealing with claims, doesn't give a toss about policyholder expectations, even those who will die complaining, and will brazenly move on and continue to lobby for laws and practices that separate the gullible and vulnerable from their expectations (which unfortunately is most of us!). That is, unless a few good men stop them in their tracks.

Thank goodness for the likes of Mr. Anthony Harris and Towag. You'd never find any IFA pressing a complaint that hard on a matter of principle and need for change against corrupt practice.

The name is Tony Wagstaffe in reality.... Hence towag :cool:;). Offered Bribes? No and I wouldn't take them on principle, because that would come back to bite you in the a***e in the long run... Its like everything, use your gut feeling, educate oneself, as its just a matter of HAVING to, but in doing so should be done in doing what IS right.... My dear old departed Grandfather who was a Grenadier Guardsman from a mining family always said "Look after number one, but always look after those who look after number one, and have compassion for those who really cant" I'm doing this as much as Tony Harris is doing, not just for ourselves, but all the others that have these god forsaken policies, who have probably grafted all their lives and more to provide a safeguard for their old age and DIGNITY... We are encouraged by HM Government to do so and when we do, we are STILL penalised when it comes down to the nitty gritty. I have a feeling that a lot more will be revealed over the next decade and the little people, the backbone of this country, will be the ones doing it.... Thanks to the speed of the internet and technology... And this forum to some extent...

agarnett

towag wrote: »

The name is Tony Wagstaffe in reality.... Hence towag :cool:;). Offered Bribes? No and I wouldn't take them on principle, because that would come back to bite you in the a***e in the long run... Its like everything, use your gut feeling, educate oneself, as its just a matter of HAVING to, but in doing so should be done in doing what IS right.... My dear old departed Grandfather who was a Grenadier Guardsman from a mining family always said "Look after number one, but always look after those who look after number one, and have compassion for those who really cant" I'm doing this as much as Tony Harris is doing, not just for ourselves, but all the others that have these god forsaken policies, who have probably grafted all their lives and more to provide a safeguard for their old age and DIGNITY... We are encouraged by HM Government to do so and when we do, we are STILL penalised when it comes down to the nitty gritty. I have a feeling that a lot more will be revealed over the next decade and the little people, the backbone of this country, will be the ones doing it.... Thanks to the speed of the internet and technology... And this forum to some extent...

I guessed your surname Tony, I know some good Wagstaffes too!

So no bribes ever offered to you by Aviva or taken? You must be in a different fund to many of the later policyholders. On the offchance you are are in the same group of funds, here's an Aviva webpage that offers the chance they'll consider still bribing you if you qualify (and are daft enough) ... notice that someone there offering to take your enquiries has the same rootname as you, but without the stick ... I'd love to give it to them!

Funny isn't it, that in 2009 yours truly gets offered a bribe of £900 to give up an important aspect of with profits fund growth, and then less than six years later, it turns out that what I might have given up is worth five times more than the bribe! But guess who on MSE was reporting that it was a no brainer and telling their clients to take it ?

So then - I wonder just how much in total Aviva now control in WP funds? The Friends Life merger/acquisition gave them a whole ot more) plus of course another big policyholder base who took even worse AXA bribes in 2001!

I wonder how their GMP prospects have fared ...

towag

agarnett wrote: »

I guessed your surname Tony, I know some good Wagstaffes too!

So no bribes ever offered to you by Aviva or taken? You must be in a different fund to many of the later policyholders. On the offchance you are are in the same group of funds, here's an Aviva webpage that offers the chance they'll consider still bribing you if you qualify (and are daft enough) ... notice that someone there offering to take your enquiries has the same rootname as you, but without the stick ... I'd love to give it to them!

Funny isn't it, that in 2009 yours truly gets offered a bribe of £900 to give up an important aspect of with profits fund growth, and then less than six years later, it turns out that what I might have given up is worth five time more than the bribe! But guess who on MSE was reporting that it was a no brainer and telling their clients to take it ?

So then - I wonder just how much in total Aviva now control in WP funds? The Friends Life merger/acquisition gave them a whole ot more) plus of course another big policyholder base who took even worse AXA bribes in 2001!

I wonder how their GMP prospects have fared ...

Have a butchers on here http://www.trustnet.com/ you'll find just about everything on what Aviva have unless they do hide what they don't want the public to know. Starting with this page Click Av in the boxes below Pension Funds / A-Z Fund Factsheets... have fun....
Yes I know who you mean.... Independent fiddling artists or something like that....

agarnett

Unfortunately TrustNet hasn't particularly well distinguished between the different Aviva WP funds.

Of the twelve that it throws up as Aviva WP Pension funds, a number say the Fund Size is that magic "£39BN" and a number do not disclose the Fund Size.

I believe the funds are disgracefully co-mingled (when it suits them) to suit the Aviva agenda.

This type of co-mingling of funds was outlawed at the sharp-end of insurance (down amongst insurance brokers and the like who might have fancied a new Merc paid out of policyholder funds) decades ago, but it looks like it is being practiced at the highest levels within giant outfits like Aviva Life and Pensions - even to the extent that Aviva's own staff pensions shortfalls have been regularly baled out using our WP funds.

Oh and re GMP inequity, make sure you vote to stay in on 23rd June, as stated here in the last paragraph:

A silver lining
If you are opposed to Britain’s exit from the European Union, you may be left searching for silver linings on 24 June.
In pensions, there is a clear candidate. GMP equalisation. The Government’s view is that the only reason for equalising GMPs is European law. A vote for Brexit could therefore be a vote to avoid having to equalise GMPs.

And your pound of pension won't be buying you much future EU sunshine in future years if we stay out - the pound will plummet because it is hot air which will cool faster than your morning porridge, and the likes of Aviva will laugh all the way to their new headquarters elsewhere in the world (Paris maybe? since that's where their lawyers seem to already work hardest anyway and Friends Life probably still holds significant French property assets since it was borne out of AXA, a French outfit) leaving hoards of ignorant arrogant Brit nincompoops to stew in their own sh|te.

towag

agarnett wrote: »

Unfortunately TrustNet hasn't particularly well distinguished between the different Aviva WP funds.

Of the twelve that it throws up as Aviva WP Pension funds, a number say the Fund Size is that magic "£39BN" and a number do not disclose the Fund Size.

I believe the funds are disgracefully co-mingled (when it suits them) to suit the Aviva agenda.

This type of co-mingling of funds was outlawed at the sharp-end of insurance (down amongst insurance brokers and the like who might have fancied a new Merc paid out of policyholder funds) decades ago, but it looks like it is being practiced at the highest levels within giant outfits like Aviva Life and Pensions - even to the extent that Aviva's own staff pensions shortfalls have been regularly baled out using our WP funds.

Oh and re GMP inequity, make sure you vote to stay in on 23rd June, as stated here in the last paragraph:

A silver lining
If you are opposed to Britain’s exit from the European Union, you may be left searching for silver linings on 24 June.
In pensions, there is a clear candidate. GMP equalisation. The Government’s view is that the only reason for equalising GMPs is European law. A vote for Brexit could therefore be a vote to avoid having to equalise GMPs.

And your pound of pension won't be buying you much future EU sunshine in future years if we stay out - the pound will plummet because it is hot air which will cool faster than your morning porridge, and the likes of Aviva will laugh all the way to their new headquarters elsewhere in the world (Paris maybe? since that's where their lawyers seem to already work hardest anyway and Friends Life probably still holds significant French property assets since it was borne out of AXA, a French outfit) leaving hoards of ignorant arrogant Brit nincompoops to stew in their own sh|te.

That we won't know till the 24th June. All I do know is that whatever happens, those at the lower end of "society" IE THE hardworking backbone will still be none the wiser, so its a matter of self educate and pass on as much as can be possible, so that others get to know as well, and to make sure you have at least a fighting chance to try and change things for the better. Like I said, I think there will be a quiet revolution happening over the next decade, whether we are in or out... Everything takes time, so whatever happens at least I know I tried

tortoise84

Out of the blue I received a letter of apology and an admission that the pension could have been paid to me 10 years ago instead of deferring it for 5 years until I was 65. As a result, a lump sum was paid into my bank account - 5 years worth of pension plus interest.
A lovely surprise! I had intended retiring at 60 (my father died aged 66 and I wanted to ensure that I had a few years to enjoy) and because of Aviva's last minute decision to defer my pension, I was forced to take a part time job for 5 years. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I received the letter.
:beer:

persistancepaysoff

I am really heartened to hear your news. Is this a sign that Aviva have finally admitted their error and are doing the right thing for ALL Section 32 sufferers?
Thanks for sharing -
Anyone else out there with this sort of news?

waterstar

tortoise84 wrote: »

Out of the blue I received a letter of apology and an admission that the pension could have been paid to me 10 years ago instead of deferring it for 5 years until I was 65. As a result, a lump sum was paid into my bank account - 5 years worth of pension plus interest.
A lovely surprise! I had intended retiring at 60 (my father died aged 66 and I wanted to ensure that I had a few years to enjoy) and because of Aviva's last minute decision to defer my pension, I was forced to take a part time job for 5 years. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I received the letter.
:beer:

Glad to hear that Aviva are being responsible and in some cases recognising their responsibilities.

One question is "how are Aviva deducting tax on this lump sum"? and how will it affect the tax you ultimately pay.

If it is taxed all in one year then it may lead to you being in a worse off position than if it had been spread over five years.

tortoise84

I will have to contact HMRC as this one off payment will put me in the 40% bracket for this financial year. Hopefully, they will be sympathetic to the situation. If the payments had been made annually, then the higher tax liability would not have been an issue.

waterstar

Hi Tortoise84

others will be more qualified on tax matters than me, however i am not sure that HMRC have the scope to be "sympathetic to the situation".

The one-off payment (and presumably calculation) made by Aviva, has that been paid gross or have Aviva deducted tax at current year rates and against your current year tax code?

Could Aviva not identify/assign the payments to the appropriate tax years? And if I understand your original posting that would be the years 2006 to 2011. Although I am not sure what the position would be about re-opening your tax calculations for those years

Alternatively Aviva should pay you further compensation to offset the higher tax charge so that you are in no worse off position than if the payments had been made correctly in the first place.