can anyone please offer advice on dealing with this child

Person_one

HurdyGurdy wrote: »

Oh, and one thing I would add is that to the best of my knowledge, Johnny was never really socialised as a baby. No parent & toddler groups, no playgroups, no coffee mornings, or "round to a friend's house to play". I haven't really explored this with Ann, as I didn't want it to come across as interfering and accusatory. But that might possibly partly explain why Johnny doesn't interact very much.

Honestly, I would just put this out of your mind, its not relevant and not something you need to be worrying about.

Those groups and things are 'nice to have' but they don't have this level of impact on development, nowhere near. Babies can still hit their milestones and learn to communicate if they only ever see their parents, or only one parent, or only a nanny.

The issues you're describing are not his parents' fault, either his mum's for not taking him to toddler groups or his dad's for living so far away.

peachyprice

Person_one wrote: »

Honestly, I would just put this out of your mind, its not relevant and not something you need to be worrying about.

Those groups and things are 'nice to have' but they don't have this level of impact on development, nowhere near. Babies can still hit their milestones and learn to communicate if they only ever see their parents, or only one parent, or only a nanny.

The issues you're describing are not his parents' fault, either his mum's for not taking him to toddler groups or his dad's for living so far away.

I do agree with you generally, but in this case I can't help but feel the fact that his mum was her dad's sole carer for the last 3 years may have had an impact. Having any toddler as a single parent can be exhausting in itself let alone a SN child, add to that being a sole carer for an ill relative you can't imagine the poor girl had the time or energy for much in the way of spending quality time with her child.

OP, I hope you manage to convince her to move nearer to your son and your family she sounds like she's in great need of a bit of TLC herself.

Person_one

peachyprice wrote: »

I do agree with you generally, but in this case I can't help but feel the fact that his mum was her dad's sole carer for the last 3 years may have had an impact. Having any toddler as a single parent can be exhausting in itself let alone a SN child, add to that being a sole carer for an ill relative you can't imagine the poor girl had the time or energy for much in the way of spending quality time with her child.

OP, I hope you manage to convince her to move nearer to your son and your family she sounds like she's in great need of a bit of TLC herself.

Oh I completely agree that it must have been really rough on the child's mum, and perhaps being a bit later speech, taking longer with toilet training or some behaviour challenges might be an inevitable consequence of how stressed and busy she was, but the kinds of issues in that SALT report seem (to my admittedly non-expert mind) to be way beyond that. I'd hate for their to be any sense in this family that mum was to blame, or for her to get the impression her MIL thought she was responsible.

Savvy_Sue

the clothing may be a sensory issue, and to my mind it's worth exploring whether there are things he's happier putting on than others.

For example, until DS1 started school and HAD to wear uniform, he wore t-shirts, sweatshirts, and jog bottoms. And each day's clothes had to be the same colour from the inside out. So Green days had green pants and socks, green jog bottoms, green sweatshirt, t-shirt with green in it. And so on.

Polo shirts were a big fat NO. I don't know if it was the buttons at the neck or the collar or that they were a different fabric to 'normal' t-shirts, but he refused to wear them.

He never wore jeans as a child or teenager. Even now, when I see him wearing jeans I wonder who it is.

So find 'soft' clothes, and go for easy to put on ...

pandora205

There seem to be lots of things happening here (SALT, EP, Portage, Physio, nursery) so by no means has this child slipped through the net. From the description, it sounds like the primary difficulty is developmental delay, and this may or may not be accompanied by other potential 'diagnoses' such as Autistic Spectrum Disorder. There are a number of contextual factors that may have impacted, such as the mother caring for her father, then bereavement, and lack of family support, lack of early years' education (no EY setting) and consequent limited stimulation and lack of opportunities for play.

At this stage there are several things that can happen:

The Portage worker is a home visitor who will introduced highly structured play which will be modelled to the carer (to continue with between sessions) with an aim of developing skills. This is educational support from a qualified practitioner and very valuable.
the Speech and Language Therapist will give advice for activities to support the child's language and communication skills, such as introducing PECS (Picture Exchange Communication System), which can be followed at home and in a setting
a referral to a Paediatrician (or in some Health Authorities CAMHS) will include medical, developmental and communication assessments contributing to a potential diagnosis


The Educational Psychologist will be carrying out observations and assessments to share with professionals including preschool/nursery, to give advice to parent/carers and to advise the Local Authority in consideration of future needs at school entry.

In some areas an Education, Health and Care Needs Assessment would be carried out; in others, High Needs top up funding would be provided to school. This would cover support for toileting as well as direct support in the classroom. NB Educational provision is not dependent on medical diagnoses and focuses on needs and outcomes, rather than labels.

Parents can also request the Local Authority carries out an Education, Health and Care Needs Assessment

Temporary funding can be applied for by an Early Years setting to provide additional support (if required). Why is the child not attending a nursery or preschool when 15 hours support is funded for all Foundation 1 children (3-4 year olds)

The area may well have Early Years specialist teachers who advise nurseries and preschool settings, as well as the Educational Psychologist and Speech and Language Therapist

Advice would be expected from the Health Visitor, Paediatrician and/or Educational Psychologist regarding sleep, diet and toilet training: some areas have specialist Sleep Clinics which are accessed via Health professionals, and dieticians advise on eating difficulties

As the deadline for applications for school admissions for September has long passed, presumably a place has been allocated. Has the child been discussed with the school?

There will probably be a Children's Centre/Surestart Centre in the area which has a range of play opportunities and activities for parents and children. They can also offer family support, parent groups etc., often providing extra to those who have children with special needs.


That's about it off the top of my head....... There is a lot that can happen and much of it already seems to be happening.

(I'm an Educational Psychologist by the way so have lots of experience in this area)

seven-day-weekend

tea_lover wrote: »

Describing your own grandson as having "something MASSIVELY wrong with him"... nice.

Well he has! May as well be realistic about it. Or you can pretend that he is merely 'troubled' and not get any appropriate help.

I know a man who had a severe mental illness whose family would only accept that he saw a psychologist because seeing a psychiatrist would mean they had to accept that he was indeed mentally ill. The same family said their babysitter must have brought a hamster into the house when she was babysitting because little droppings had appeared, instead of accepting they had a problem with mice.

No point mincing words, just accept the reality and things can get sorted, but not if you are not realistic about it.

pendragon_arther

I'd humbly suggest what with all the stress his mum has been through plus the trauma of his parents being separated he's one angry little boy and his behaviour is the only way to vent his frustrations. I'm not a child therapist but a retired psychotherapist and I know that adults sometimes do not realise how aware children, even from an early age, can be. A child therapist would be the answer although this is probably not possible with resources being overwhelmed etc. The only suggestion I can make is to divert his frustrations into a more positive direction and getting him a pet to care for and form some sort of attachment.

SingleSue

Woah this takes me back, if I'm honest, not in a good way (sorry OP, not your fault but the way my brain works)

That report could have been taken from my youngest son's medical reports and to say the memories came flooding back is an under statement.

It took quite a few years for him to get his formal diagnosis (they preferred to label him as having autistic like behaviour - not saying this is what is going on here) but because he didn't have the proper label, it meant he could not access all the early intervention help he could, thankfully it doesn't look like that is happening here with the inclusion of portage provision. From start to finish, it took approx 3 and a half years mainly because he is so complex and he didn't fit neatly into the boxes.

Youngest at age 4 was also still in nappies, was completely non verbal (his way of verbalising was to scream...all the time) and would only eat one thing - chicken. He was also completely locked away in his own world with only the occasional times when the 'shutters' came up for a second or two and we were allowed a brief glimpse of his intelligence.

At just before age 5, he was classed as being at least 2 years behind his peers and he was moved to a specialist unit within another school (there is a bit of a story behind this but that is for another time) and he caught up with his peers so they moved him into mainstream...he couldn't cope and shut down again.

Then followed several years of the same happening over and over again, he even spent time at a school designed for autistic children but had to leave when he caught up and surpassed his non autistic peers as he was too bright to stay there and then the merry go round started again.

In all that time, he was not able to cope with full time school so he attended for only 2 and a half days a week, less if you take out the time he was off for hospital stays etc connected to his other disabilities (complex autism is just one of his disabilities). In year 6, just before his 11th birthday, he finally went full time.

I must admit, at the time I was going through it everything seemed all rather hopeless. I was completely exhausted, he didn't sleep, he screamed all the time and going out anywhere was an absolute nightmare, however, with intensive therapies (I had to do my own as the 'services' dropped us when I refused medication to calm him down), things slowly started to improve.

That child is now 18, he did go to mainstream high school (albeit with a very high support package), he did take his GCSEs, he talks non stop now (usually about his own interests though) and he is currently doing level 3 BTEC and achieving Distinction* x 3 and is hoping to go to university (that is our next challenge - currently he doesn't go anywhere on his own, goodness knows how he is going to manage but we will find a way).

I suppose what I am trying to say is that even though things look really bad now, there is always the possibilty of some hope. I am not saying this will be the case, I certainly would not have believed anyone if they had said the same to me even 10 years ago (hell, even 2 years ago when everything was going so badly eek and wrong) but never give up on hope, sometimes the seemingly impossible can happen.

It has not been an easy road, the work has been non stop and continues to be non stop just to keep him in this world and moving forward but it has been worth it.

*He is still obsessed with having chicken!

Anthear

Hi HudryGurdy - I work with Special Needs children including those on the Autistic spectrum, although they are older. From what you are saying, he is being investigated - that's good, because hopefully your family will get the support they need.

Nursery sounds great. What I will say is that children on the Autistic spectrum do seeing things differently and there is a tendency to be very literal, so the child finds 'figures of speech' really difficult to understand.

Everyone being consistent will help as will being calm - some ASD children hate loud noise, and are very sensitive - that might explain the clothes?? Good luck, keep plugging away. Have you had a look at this and the pages on children? http://www.autism.org.uk/

All the best

HurdyGurdy

Thank you all - again - for your comments and input.

I have just spoken with my son on the phone, and they have been visited today by someone from Portage, and a new Health Visitor. Things are being put in place, and they were advised to contact a specific Children's Centre as that one has someone who specialises in toilet training. As I was speaking to my son, his partner was on the phone to the Children's Centre to make an appointment.

They have to go on Monday to complete a CAF, which again, will move things forward for them. The letters about school places are due out soon, but unfortunately, my son's partner didn't know that one of the local schools, that she put third on her choices list due to it's location, actually has a special room for children with sensory needs, which would seem to be ideal. Probably too late to change now, but she will at least give them a call - nothing to be lost by asking.

It seems now that everyone they speak to is inferring autism, but no one's saying the word out loud. But the outcomes of all these meetings, and form filling exercises will all end up on the desk of a paediatrician, so hopefully there will be a definite answer one way or the other before too long.