Employer keeps getting pay wrong - ultimately what can you do?

[Deleted User]

Wife gets overtime and shift allowances. Not once in the last 6 months has her pay been correct.

There is always something missing, or sometimes something totally random (as if they've mixed up someone else's timesheet). Every month we need to check it and theres all the hassle of contacting them to sort it out.

Just after xmas, no idea what happened but pay was £600 short. Would have been nice to have the money to pay off xmas bills. All they do is say sorry and you get paid a month later.

This time they've screwed it up again. Because of the way its worked out, wife has paid no tax this year (didnt earn enough) so its advantageous that correct OT is paid this year.

So its £500 short again this month and they're answer, we'll pay it next month. Wife has complained and complained but they just don't see how, because of they're mistake, it'll be next tax year for that so she'll be £100 out of pocket because of the mistake.

Shes complained and complained (employer is nhs BTW) and given them every chance to sort it out but its still the same. Any idea how we can escalate?

sangie595

In effect - nothing. If they owe her money but pay it before you can take any legal recovery action (which they are doing), then you can't "recover" money that has been paid. She can put in a grievance. It might work. It might not. But they are paying her, albeit late. So there is no recourse to law. Grievance is it.

bugslet

Sangie, is there likely to be nothing in the contract that says they pay wages on x day per month? Or does that just mean they pay some money, not necessarily the right money?

getmore4less

The OP has had endless issues with his wife and her work.

It should be clear from the pay slips what hours/enhanced/OT have been included for that months pay run.

Until you establish where in the process the problem is you will never get this sorted.

Are the time sheets correct getting put in on time etc.

[Deleted User]

getmore4less wrote: »

The OP has had endless issues with his wife and her work.

It should be clear from the pay slips what hours/enhanced/OT have been included for that months pay run.

Until you establish where in the process the problem is you will never get this sorted.

Are the time sheets correct getting put in on time etc.

Timesheet is submitted before 15th of month 1 for payment on 23rd of next month. It is always submitted and approved - this is not the problem.

Problem seems to lie solely with clerical errors by payroll. I guess at some point someone has to manually type these addtional hours. What shes had:-

1. Previous months timesheet used again accidentally.
2. No timesheet used at all so zero (they lost it they admitted!)
3. Completely random payments of hours (as if they used someone elses timesheet).
4. Just plain clerical/typing errors where you can see whats happened (i.e 2 hours paid instead of 22).

The worse thing is its impossible to get hold of them most of the time to do anything.

[Deleted User]

sangie595 wrote: »

In effect - nothing. If they owe her money but pay it before you can take any legal recovery action (which they are doing), then you can't "recover" money that has been paid. She can put in a grievance. It might work. It might not. But they are paying her, albeit late. So there is no recourse to law. Grievance is it.

Really is scandalous.

Of course, before long people are going to start thinking, do that 3-4 hours overtime and put myself out. Nah not worth the hassle and I might not get paid it for 3-4 months anyway.

Very poor situation for an NHS employer to be in....

sangie595

bugslet wrote: »

Sangie, is there likely to be nothing in the contract that says they pay wages on x day per month? Or does that just mean they pay some money, not necessarily the right money?

There will be - but the same problem still applies. Say an employer says they pay on the last day of the month, but in actual fact never pays until 10th of the next month. So on 1st of the month the employee is owed money and asks for it. They don't get it. Assuming they then immediately present a letter before action, giving a reasonable period for the employer to pay up.... well the employer will be paid up on 10th anyway so.... And the next month you do it all over again, because you can't take legal action until the money is owed, even if you know it will be late.

The employee could claim breach of contract, but all that establishes is that the contract is broken - and that they therefore have no job!

The "standard" advice is that if non-payment results in a loss for the employee (bank charges, for example) they can claim these from the employer. But it isn't really as helpful as it sounds. In the first instance, the loss must be solely attributable to the employers non-payment. Secondly, it is a practice more valued in its non-use - it really isn't worth the legal action, it will simply paint a target on the employee back, and actually, we don't know that a court would definitely support such a claim. In reality, a good employer would recompense for losses - but the rest won't.

[Deleted User]

sangie595 wrote: »

There will be - but the same problem still applies. Say an employer says they pay on the last day of the month, but in actual fact never pays until 10th of the next month. So on 1st of the month the employee is owed money and asks for it. They don't get it. Assuming they then immediately present a letter before action, giving a reasonable period for the employer to pay up.... well the employer will be paid up on 10th anyway so.... And the next month you do it all over again, because you can't take legal action until the money is owed, even if you know it will be late.

The employee could claim breach of contract, but all that establishes is that the contract is broken - and that they therefore have no job!

The "standard" advice is that if non-payment results in a loss for the employee (bank charges, for example) they can claim these from the employer. But it isn't really as helpful as it sounds. In the first instance, the loss must be solely attributable to the employers non-payment. Secondly, it is a practice more valued in its non-use - it really isn't worth the legal action, it will simply paint a target on the employee back, and actually, we don't know that a court would definitely support such a claim. In reality, a good employer would recompense for losses - but the rest won't.

Sangie - your right. Like you said they do eventually pay when the error is pointed out to them so we can't sue or anything.

Its just the time it takes to check it all every month, chase them up, they do it wrong again etc. And of course, no-one wants to wait months to get paid.

The worse thing is you know full well that no-one in payroll actually gives a stuff at all. Its a sad state of affairs for the NHS that they've outsourced the payroll and cant even pay their staff on time.

Like I said, it does affect people because people do genuinely start to think - I wont do it because I wont get paid for months. So sometimes patient care covers because there is no-one to cover shifts. Its no wonder sometimes the nhs is in such a state if staff are not even treated to basic things like actually being paid on time for work done.

Valli

Has she advised her Union of the issue? Also, are other colleagues also having similar issues?

[Deleted User]

Valli wrote: »

Has she advised her Union of the issue? Also, are other colleagues also having similar issues?

Union worse than useless. :-( Tried and tried that route. They make more excuses than the employer. Standard answer from them is oh well, mistakes happen and they are really busy. Or at least you got it in the end.

Yes like I said it happens to everyone. BUT I get the impression that not everyone checks they're payslips so a LOT of people getting short paid I would imagine. I guess lots of people just dont do it. For us, when it was obviously wrong once or twice it became apparent that unless it was checked you just didnt get paid for work done.

Wife was particularly miffed to get a letter from payroll saying they'd done an audit and she was overpaid by £4.50 6 months ago so they were taking it back in next day. Fair enough but they seem more intent on saving money than getting employees pay correct in the first place

I imagine they're 'audit' would have picked up thousands of underpayments but they seem to have kept quiet about that I think. I'd bet my mortgage that they picked up underpayments and didnt notify people.

Manxman_in_exile

I was involved in NHS payroll systems for many years and your wife shouldn't have to put up with this.

I assume your wife is directly employed by the NHS trust involved (ie not by an agency or somebody else) and her monthly pay varies according to submission of time sheets etc?

There will exist a monthly payroll schedule specifying the cut-off dates for the receipt in payroll of time sheets etc. and, provided these are met, these time sheets etc will be in that month's pay run. This schedule should be widely available as it directly affects staff pay. (In my trust it was the one piece of paper you could guarantee finding in every work place).

Your wife needs to ensure that she, her manager, and their dept are meeting these cut-off dates. We had to gather time sheets from about 20 different sites spread across a large county and despatch them off to an outsourced payroll provider 500 miles away. There were well identified procedures to ensure deadlines were met. If cut-offs are being met then there must be a problem with how time-sheets are being processed (whether in-house or out-sourced).

Your wife needs to collect evidence of all short payments and missing time sheets etc and make an informal approach to her manager. They then ought to raise it with HR and/or payroll, depending on whether her trust considers ESR to be a finance or HR responsibility. If your wife is in a union they really ought to be interested in this and helping her. Our union rep's eyes would light up at the prospect of attacking payroll errors.

Does her trust have what we called a Payroll Liaison Officer? Part of her duties was to resolve all pay queries and I never knew her to fail to do so. This often resulted in improvements or amendments to payroll procedures.

If you continue to get nowhere consider if it’s worth the hassle of a grievance. But the union really ought to be helping.