Employer keeps getting pay wrong - ultimately what can you do?

bugslet

sangie595 wrote: »

There will be - but the same problem still applies. Say an employer says they pay on the last day of the month, but in actual fact never pays until 10th of the next month. So on 1st of the month the employee is owed money and asks for it. They don't get it. Assuming they then immediately present a letter before action, giving a reasonable period for the employer to pay up.... well the employer will be paid up on 10th anyway so.... And the next month you do it all over again, because you can't take legal action until the money is owed, even if you know it will be late.

The employee could claim breach of contract, but all that establishes is that the contract is broken - and that they therefore have no job!

The "standard" advice is that if non-payment results in a loss for the employee (bank charges, for example) they can claim these from the employer. But it isn't really as helpful as it sounds. In the first instance, the loss must be solely attributable to the employers non-payment. Secondly, it is a practice more valued in its non-use - it really isn't worth the legal action, it will simply paint a target on the employee back, and actually, we don't know that a court would definitely support such a claim. In reality, a good employer would recompense for losses - but the rest won't.

Thanks sangie.

It's no wonder employers get a bad name. With us, as a small company, if there is something wrong with pay, (a very rare occurrence), it's sorted within a week.

It really shouldn't be that complicated.

[Deleted User]

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

I was involved in NHS payroll systems for many years and your wife shouldn't have to put up with this.

I assume your wife is directly employed by the NHS trust involved (ie not by an agency or somebody else) and her monthly pay varies according to submission of time sheets etc?

There will exist a monthly payroll schedule specifying the cut-off dates for the receipt in payroll of time sheets etc. and, provided these are met, these time sheets etc will be in that month's pay run. This schedule should be widely available as it directly affects staff pay. (In my trust it was the one piece of paper you could guarantee finding in every work place).

Your wife needs to ensure that she, her manager, and their dept are meeting these cut-off dates. We had to gather time sheets from about 20 different sites spread across a large county and despatch them off to an outsourced payroll provider 500 miles away. There were well identified procedures to ensure deadlines were met. If cut-offs are being met then there must be a problem with how time-sheets are being processed (whether in-house or out-sourced).

Your wife needs to collect evidence of all short payments and missing time sheets etc and make an informal approach to her manager. They then ought to raise it with HR and/or payroll, depending on whether her trust considers ESR to be a finance or HR responsibility. If your wife is in a union they really ought to be interested in this and helping her. Our union rep's eyes would light up at the prospect of attacking payroll errors.

Does her trust have what we called a Payroll Liaison Officer? Part of her duties was to resolve all pay queries and I never knew her to fail to do so. This often resulted in improvements or amendments to payroll procedures.

If you continue to get nowhere consider if it’s worth the hassle of a grievance. But the union really ought to be helping.

Thanks. Yes she works for NHS trust. She works part-time so sometimes works extra shifts, unsociable hours, saturdays, sundays etc so it all adds up.

This all goes on the timesheet and is submitted and signed by the cut off date.

Not aware of a payroll liason officer. All she has is a phone number and email address and they are just not interested. Neither are the union.

As an example, this month she should have been paid 8 hours extra, 16 hours saturday shift allowance, 8 hours sundays shift allowance, and 4 hours unsociable allowance.

Instead, she got -28 hours (where that came from who knows?), the saturday and sunday were right and then -4 hours unsociable. Sometimes its just impossible to work out exactly what they have done. Like I said is some cases I'm sure its someone elses timesheet!

So this month shes about 38 hours pay short. Over £500 short.

Like I said what is also annoying is that, because shes been off ill her pay is only just over £10 this year so there's still a few £100 of tax allowance to use. This £500 would have used it nicely.

BUT now, if they pay next year (when she'll earn probably more since shes taking on more hours) then it'll be 20% tax on it.

ohreally

[quote=[Deleted User];70390493] they are just not interested. Neither are the union[/QUOTE]

Perhaps that steward isn't interested/ confident at obtaining a resolution.

Make contact with the branch office and ask for an appropriate steward to look into her complaint and escalate as necessary.

Edit: what union?

[Deleted User]

ohreally wrote: »

Perhaps that steward isn't interested/ confident at obtaining a resolution.

Make contact with the branch office and ask for an appropriate steward to look into her complaint and escalate as necessary.

Edit: what union?

Yep probably. Its unison.

ohreally

[quote=[Deleted User];70391385]Yep probably. Its unison.[/QUOTE]

Have her complete a case form with the steward (ignore the part about tribunals), that should focus their attention in dealing with the issue.


https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2014/04/new-case-form-and-guidance/

dawyldthing

When I used to get paid wrong Id email them a list of times worked, dates, places worked. Id even add the days when it should be on a shift premium and as well as handing your sheet in I would email a copy as well as write it in a list form on the date it needs to be in. Even click on your email to get a reply when it's open and do it every month until they get the message your sick of not being paid right

Manxman_in_exile

As I said before this is unacceptable for a NHS trust. And unacceptable for the union not to be interested.


Make a list of the short payments. Your wife needs to go to her manager and say that this (if supported by your wife's pay details) is not good enough. At this point it's not a complaint or grievance - she's simply querying how payroll are paying her. Your wife's manager then has to escalate this through HR and / or finance to find a solution to the problem. You say other staff have similar problems so I do not understand why her union are not helping.


If your wife's manager can't be bothered to get the problem sorted out with payroll (that's part of their job) then your wife's first move might be a grievance against her manager. But that may be a big step.


Try to sort it informally within the trust directly if you can before a formal grievance. But paying staff short is a no-no and has to be addressed. If you are confident of your grounds go ahead. But make sure you've covered every other avenue in trying to get this rectified.


If you are not happy about the way local Unison(?) reps are dealing with this, contact her regional office.

[Deleted User]

dawyldthing wrote: »

When I used to get paid wrong Id email them a list of times worked, dates, places worked. Id even add the days when it should be on a shift premium and as well as handing your sheet in I would email a copy as well as write it in a list form on the date it needs to be in. Even click on your email to get a reply when it's open and do it every month until they get the message your sick of not being paid right

Yes do that now. Its just so time consuming having to this all the time.

Its not just a lack of overtime payments either. This month she was due something like 12 hours overtime. Instead the payslip shows -28 hours. She only works 16 hours a week (which is 69 a month) so id they're docking 28 hours it a big chunk gone.

[Deleted User]

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

As I said before this is unacceptable for a NHS trust. And unacceptable for the union not to be interested.


Make a list of the short payments. Your wife needs to go to her manager and say that this (if supported by your wife's pay details) is not good enough. At this point it's not a complaint or grievance - she's simply querying how payroll are paying her. Your wife's manager then has to escalate this through HR and / or finance to find a solution to the problem. You say other staff have similar problems so I do not understand why her union are not helping.


If your wife's manager can't be bothered to get the problem sorted out with payroll (that's part of their job) then your wife's first move might be a grievance against her manager. But that may be a big step.


Try to sort it informally within the trust directly if you can before a formal grievance. But paying staff short is a no-no and has to be addressed. If you are confident of your grounds go ahead. But make sure you've covered every other avenue in trying to get this rectified.


If you are not happy about the way local Unison(?) reps are dealing with this, contact her regional office.

I dread to think how many of her colleagues are getting short changed. Like I said more months than not pay is wrong.

Some colleagues also check they're payslips and have noticed similar issues. BUT the fact is a lot of colleagues just never check they're payslip EVER. If they've worked a bit extra all they ever do is take a quick look and say yes thats a bit more.

Its scandalous that this is happening to be honest.

Manxman_in_exile

Collect your evidence of short payment.
Your wife then (with or without union assistance, but preferably with) needs to present this to someone in her line management. She needs to ask the line manager to query this with HR/Finance/payroll.
If she gets nowhere with this then she needs to consider if it's worth bringing a grievance.


Also, if your wife's trust is like most NHS trusts then the directorate she works in will have a designated HR "consultant" (or such like) within the central HR department. Find out who this is and try to contact them directly with details of underpayments.