'Outdated' landline charges should be scrapped

lee111s

I know

The fibre cabinet for EO conversions isn't always right outside the exchange though. It very much depends on the network topography of the lines that are being converted.

Terry98

kwikbreaks wrote: »

Now that I can agree with however it isn't exactly what Mr. Vaizey is talking about....

But he can get things changed and I can't

kwikbreaks wrote: »

I firmly believe that the idiot thinks you don't need a phone line to get ADSL/VDSL broadband. Although he does indeed go on to say..

It's a certainty that his "could mean other products becoming more expensive" is in fact a "would mean". If people are too stupid to realise they need to look at the total costs of a service then more fool them.

I don't think people have to be too stupid to get confused by the techniques some of the ISP's are using to sell broadband. It's using confusion marketing to the extreme.

It would not take much to make it clearer.

No use of the word 'up to'
Standard 12 or 18 month contracts with one price for the whole of the contract term
All in prices including line rental with or without call charges

kwikbreaks

I guess given the standards of teaching these days you may be correct on the first point.

The "upto" business once again illustrates that far too many people simply don't have any understanding of the technologies they use. ADSL and VDSL products really are "upto" and it can be very difficult to give an accurate estimate of what actual speed will be achieved before installation because even line length which may not be known isn't the end of the story. The usual gripe is I only get n Mbps but pay the same as somebody getting a lot bigger n Mbps. If realistically priced the slow line should cost more as a longer line will have more chance of a failure requiring support.

The next two are more examples of a failure to correctly use basic arithmetic.

If you think broadband pricing is complex take a look at the mess the power providers have constructed. The government are trying to get that simplified but I'll bet getting the cheapest deal will still be hit and miss.

Ian011

kwikbreaks wrote: »

It's just another dipstick politician grandstanding on a populist platform on a topic he knows nothing about. The pricing is already split - line charge and call package.

The charge for 'line rental' covers the provision of a line that runs all the way to the exchange and active dial-tone on it. It usually also includes an allowance of weekend calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers - and in some cases to other numbers too.

The inclusive calls obviously have some monetary value but at present this is not transparent. What needs to happen is for the charge to be split so that the line rental is purely the charge for the line and any and all charges for call packages or for individual calls are completely separate. Whether there should be a small charge for 'provision of dial tone' is another factor.

This would give the possibility of having a line without any calls, even without any dial-tone, to which a broadband package could be added. Quite how this would work when currently everything identifying the line is keyed off the phone number (and there wouldn't be one here) is anyone's guess.

Terry98

kwikbreaks wrote: »

The "upto" business once again illustrates that far too many people simply don't have any understanding of the technologies they use.

The last time I looked at changing ISP Fibre broadband was not an option. I started by looking at a comparison website and I was offered 'up to 38 Mbps'

My current ISP offered me the same 'up to 38 Mbps'

Further digging and help from here I found out it might be only 11Mbps . Surely there is a better phase than 'up to'

kwikbreaks wrote: »

The next two are more examples of a failure to correctly use basic arithmetic.

If you think broadband pricing is complex take a look at the mess the power providers have constructed. The government are trying to get that simplified but I'll bet getting the cheapest deal will still be hit and miss.

Point taken.

I have transferred power suppliers a few times and got used to the process.

I suppose I will have to get used to this process.

Enterprise_1701C

I haven't read the entire thread but I have a couple of comments.

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I disagree,this man is talking ill informed drivel.

The local loop is an asset. The asset belongs to someone. It has to be maintained. It is also used for the carriage of data. Take it away and nothing works.

Nothing is for free..

If i go to the carphone warehouse and get myself an iphone 6. Can i just not use it for calls and then flick the finger at vodafone and say, well i havent used it for calls only data ,so can i not be charged please?

Other retailers and network providers are available..

You can get data only tariffs so yes you can.

What puts me off using our landline for calls (we are with Virgin) is that there is an 18p connection charge for all chargeable calls. So basically a minimum charge for each call. If this was not the case then I might actually consider using it, a lot of my calls are a matter of a couple of minutes. That part is also out of date, they need to wake up to the fact that the infrastructure was paid for some time ago, maintenance should be at a minimum if they got the infrastructure in place properly including cables in the right size conduit etc (round here BT seem to have just buried their cables without conduit, Virgin have used conduit so a lot easier.)

boliston

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I haven't read the entire thread but I have a couple of comments.



You can get data only tariffs so yes you can.

What puts me off using our landline for calls (we are with Virgin) is that there is an 18p connection charge for all chargeable calls. So basically a minimum charge for each call. If this was not the case then I might actually consider using it, a lot of my calls are a matter of a couple of minutes.

"connection charge" harks back to the days when an operator had to physically connect each call - surely it only makes sense to charge for the time of the call with modern technology.

Retrogamer

Terry98 wrote: »

The last time I looked at changing ISP Fibre broadband was not an option. I started by looking at a comparison website and I was offered 'up to 38 Mbps'

My current ISP offered me the same 'up to 38 Mbps'

Further digging and help from here I found out it might be only 11Mbps . Surely there is a better phase than 'up to'
.

Like what? I worked in broadband with different companies for several years but i can't think of anything off the top of my head.

Terry98

Retrogamer wrote: »

Like what? I worked in broadband with different companies for several years but i can't think of anything off the top of my head.

Like '11 - 17 Mb' which I only found out after asking the question on here. That is nothing like 'Up to 38mb'

Ian011

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

What puts me off using our landline for calls (we are with Virgin) is that there is an 18p connection charge for all chargeable calls. So basically a minimum charge for each call. If this was not the case then I might actually consider using it, a lot of my calls are a matter of a couple of minutes.

If you are paying a per-minute rate for calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers, you're more than likely on the wrong call plan and paying too much.

If you make two calls per week, each about eight minutes long, or four calls per week, each about three minutes long, to numbers starting 01, 02 or 03, on a landline and pay a per-minute rate, you will have already spent more than the anytime unlimited inclusive call package would have cost.

Landline companies have botched their marketing. They always promote deals with inclusive weekend calls to keep the advertised headline monthly price low, but these deals have extortionate weekday rates. This has led to the widespread belief that 'landlines are expensive'.

Using a landline is very cheap. Most providers offer unlimited anytime calls for less than 30p per day. This covers calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers and is equivalent to making a one minute and-a-few-seconds call every day. More and more deals are appearing with inclusive calls to mobile numbers and this trend is set to continue. In comparison, £8 per month on a mobile top-up or contract doesn't get you very much.

Customer services, financial services, public services and healthcare services are no longer allowed to use premium rate numbers starting 084, 087 or 09 so there should be almost zero need to ever call those numbers. However, if you really need to do so, calling these numbers from a landline costs around 33p per minute less than calling the same number from a mobile (compare the Access Charge element to see the difference).