No seat in 2nd class train carriage

discat11

TBF I agree with you -I was just putting a counter argument to those that seem to want a mandatory reservation where a ticket = a seat.

From a passengers perspective it would be a nightmare to have mandatory reservations and allocated seats, from the ticketing staffs perception though it would have a number of advantages as I stated earlier.

Customer care is best served by those who only have this role, place another role in superiority over it (like safety related mandatory duties for instance) and the care of the customer comes 2nd place some of the time -not ideal but thats why original railways had guards and ticketing staff as 2 separate roles.

Owain_Moneysaver

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Just smile and give him/her a fake name and address,job done..

Guards have immediate access through their train company's Fraud and Security office to electoral roll and credit agency search data to confirm name and address. Failure to produce a valid ticket, buy a valid ticket, or give a true name and address and pay for a ticket later may be an offence.

Time, date, and train details will also be logged enabling cross-reference to on-train CCTV. This can be tracked back to CCTV at origin and destination stations.

Owain_Moneysaver

Dollardog wrote: »

Even reserving a seat doesn't guarantee you a seat as I found out to my cost a couple of weeks ago.
Because I can't walk/stand for long periods, ...

You may wish to consider using the Assisted Travel service which train companies use. As well as providing someone to assist with luggage etc (if needed) this also means that platform and on-train staff are informed in advance of a passenger travelling who needs assistance.

Hedgehog99

It's been reported recently that people have been taking small folding seats with them because of the overcrowding on some services, so, if you need to take luggage on your journey, can you find something suitable that includes a seat / could improvise as such?

Cattle class is awful, but that doesn't mean you can travel in 1st without permission.

I once had to stand on a long section of a journey, and, when some people got off, I claimed one of those fold-down seats near the doors. I had a large suitcase with me which I made sure didn't block anyone getting on/off. Guard came through, was extremely rude & ordered me to sit in the one seat in the main carriage that was now free, even though I explained there wasn't room in the luggage rack for my case. I got scowled at by everyone who had to squeeze past for the rest of the way and, yes, the fold-down seat was occupied by others the rest of the time, with bags strewn all over the floor.

After nine consecutive weeks of engineering works & replacement buses that took nearly two hours to cover what the train did in less than 20 mins, I got a car.

C_Mababejive

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Guards have immediate access through their train company's Fraud and Security office to electoral roll and credit agency search data to confirm name and address. Failure to produce a valid ticket, buy a valid ticket, or give a true name and address and pay for a ticket later may be an offence.

Time, date, and train details will also be logged enabling cross-reference to on-train CCTV. This can be tracked back to CCTV at origin and destination stations.

Perhaps wear a clip on beard and glasses?

Stigy

Disgruntled_traveller wrote: »

Please can anyone let me know what my rights are? Shall I take this to court on behalf of UK train travellers and simply for the sake of common sense? I would like to seek justice... but am not sure what my chances of success are. Does anyone have any thoughts or similar previous experiences?

If you don't pay the notice or appeal it (and then pay it....because you'll likely lose), you'll end up in court anyway (as the defendant). Unfortunately for you though, much like an appeal of the notice, you'll likely lose.

katejo

On one occasion, some years ago, i had a seat reservation from Newcastle to London. The train had come from Edinburgh and was already full, including my seat. The occupant refused to budge. I asked the guard for help but he was useless. Just said I would have to wait for someone to leave the train at York. I did get my £1 reservation fee back and eventually got a seat for part of the journey.

Re. the OP's question: I doubt that you will get anywhere and will end up paying much more

katejo

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Guards have immediate access through their train company's Fraud and Security office to electoral roll and credit agency search data to confirm name and address. Failure to produce a valid ticket, buy a valid ticket, or give a true name and address and pay for a ticket later may be an offence.

Time, date, and train details will also be logged enabling cross-reference to on-train CCTV. This can be tracked back to CCTV at origin and destination stations.

I'd be interested to know just how many passengers have actually been 'found out' in this way.

minty777

I've been on packed trains and the guards have advised standard passengers to sit in first class and re-imbursed the people who bought first class seats.

Dollardog

discat11 wrote: »

I would agree that dollar dog needs to write in.

I also agree that there is no excuse for staff 'rudeness' although I fail to see how the guard could have obviously been more helpful given the circumstances.

It isn't in their control to turf someone else out of a seat (unless they know that person is a member of staff travelling) and of course they could actually get through the train to do this.
It sounded very much from DD's post this would have been an impossible task.
The train was already running late and as such it was the guards priority (after safety) to get the train out as soon as was possible to prevent further accumulative delay, fruitlessly walking up the outside of the train with DD in an attempt to get someone else to give up their seat would have meant a fairly significant delay which no guard is going to be able to justify.

s/he should/could have said 'I'll try and help when we leave the station' however -although they'd have known the chances of that being possible were minimal to be fair if they had any experience at all.


It's all very well criticising the staff member for being 'rude' but at least try to understand what they could have done and what they clearly couldn't have rather than making a coverall judgment they were unhelpful for the sake of it.

I wasn't making a point that they were unhelpful for the sake of it. I said that they were rude because of the way that they snapped at me. I realise that they were working under extreme pressure to get the train out of the station as soon as they could but there really was no need to snap at me as they did, I had been polite to them and in fact they did walk off up the outside of the train with another passenger, I have no idea why.