What's the best unbranded dog food?

sangie595

kezzann wrote: »

I currently buy pedigree but i wanna know if anyone uses any unbranded stuff that's just as good?

thanks! :j

Fosterdog wrote: »

This is exactly what you are doing in your posts, you are so stuck in your opinion that you are disregarding other people's personal experiences.

I have also never met a neurotic dog on a raw diet, I have met and worked with numerous dogs with problems, particularly some of abuse cases I have fostered and I have seen the effects a dietary issue can have on behaviour first hand but I have never seen of and before your post never heard of a balanced raw diet causing any issue with behaviour. I have seen and heard of countless dogs who's behaviour has improved on a raw diet.

An unbalanced diet can cause it, whether raw or not, I have seen it in a raw fed dog who's owner fed no offal at all, it threw the balance out and led to some problems but within weeks of the diet being corrected and offal being introduced the behaviour issues stopped.

Please I beg you if you are trained to the level you say you are and are giving people advice on their dogs (who probably already have issues if they are hiring a professional) do real research into a raw diet so next time you come across one of these many raw fed dogs with behaviour issues instead of instantly blaming the overall diet advise them on getting the correct balance. I guarentee you will see a positive behaviour change to coincide with the diet rebalance.

I'm not saying not to have your preference for a food but if you are going to be any good at your profession you owe it to the people paying for your service and the dogs you'll be helping to be fully informed before discounting a raw diet.

At no point in time have I advocated ANY preference. I have repeatedly made it clear that I am not doing so. There are many perfectly good diets for dogs. I have repeatedly said that balance is not simply dietary, but it's also about the dog's life and health. And I do not instantly blame anything - diet is ONE of the things assessed, and I also made that clear. And I see no point in repeating that simply because you or some other poster have never seen something is actually not an indicator that something is not the case.

And for your information I will have nobody paying for my services. I have retrained for my retirement, in order to be able to offer professional services, based on decades of working with dogs and my studies, to support dog rescues that cannot afford the services of a dog behaviorist, and to provide retraining and rehoming support.

I do not discount raw. It is an option, and I have not said it isn't. But it is not responsible to fail to acknowledge that it has detractors, and from people well qualified to comment on it. And that is what I have said. There is no consensus on the diet, which I have pointed out. And will continue to do so. I see people whose dogs appear to be fine feed raw. And others that definitely do not do fine. Unlike the trainer that a couple told me about last week, who told them that if they did not feed raw then they were damaging their puppy and that it amounted to abuse, I advocate that people care for their dogs responsibly, but that they are not required to follow some regimen simply because some expert had said that this is the only way. Otherwise, how would you explain all those dogs that coped rather well before someone decided that this was their only true natural diet, and those that continue to do so without the raw diet?

Feral_Moon

GwylimT wrote: »

As someone who has lived with pet and working dogs for most of his life, and who has grown up with a dad who is a UK renowed sheep dog trainer. There certainly isn't a need for working dog food.

Working dog food is a classification to avoid paying VAT. It has absolutely nothing to do with the content of protein or indeed any other ingredient. They are identical products apart from description.

Feral_Moon

sangie595 wrote: »

There are many other such links, and vets are not trained in their nutritional knowledge by dog food manufacturers. Whilst the raw diet is considered nirvana by some, there are equally strong (and qualified) views to the contrary. And if you think that a dog cannot thrive on a vegetarian diet, that simply shows that you have no knowledge of vegetarian dog diets - many do in fact thrive on such diets, and in fact one dog I have personal knowledge of has had to be removed from any meat in its diet for medical reasons, and is now thriving on a meat free diet instead of the diet of meat that was killing it slowly. Admitted, that is a rare circumstance - but it shows that your point is not applicable - dogs can thrive on vegetarian diets if the balance is good, just as a balanced meat diet is required.

You may have done two and a half years research (I assume you are a vet or other professional and can actually test the science?) before deciding on this particular diet. So there is no way that we will ever agree on this. But I have now nearly completed my fourth and final year of professional study in dog behaviourism and am about to get my full Kennel Club accreditation. This is a level 7 qualification (equivalent to a Masters degree). We are trained in dietary requirements and the impacts of diet on dogs. And diet is one of the first things we consider when faced with behavioural issues in dogs, because it is often a factor in behaviour. Too high a protein level in domestic dogs is a common factor in poor behaviours - many domestic dogs simply do not get enough exercise to use the protein effectively. Indeed, in some dogs with behavioural problems, a change in diet is all they need to help them on their way. That may not be always about meat protein content - it could be a number of things - but high meat content is one thing that contributes to poor behaviours in some dogs.These are things we have been taught by qualified professionals and science - not a single dog food manufacturer in sight.

We are never going to agree on this point clearly, but I would point out that for all the advocates of the BARF diet, there are just as many detractors who are equally qualified and experienced to express and opinion on the science of the matter. It is not the case that this is an undisputedly excellent diet and the best that one can provide for dogs. Many dogs, in fact the majority of dogs, live long and healthy lives on "normal" diets.

Which course is it that you have undertaken? Even the CCOA don't teach above a level 6 course in Clinical Animal Behaviour which is aimed at veterinary professionals. And, with all due respect, I wouldn't consider being accredited by the Kennel Club to be of any significant worth or endorsement.

sangie595

Feral_Moon wrote: »

Which course is it that you have undertaken? Even the CCOA don't teach above a level 6 course in Clinical Animal Behaviour which is aimed at veterinary professionals. And, with all due respect, I wouldn't consider being accredited by the Kennel Club to be of any significant worth or endorsement.

Really? Your knowledge would appear to be wrong. There are several institutions and universities offering level 7 qualifications, just in the UK. And what you personally consider Kennel Club accreditation to be worth is neither here nor there - it is a recognised standard of independently verified practitioner ability. Since there is no regulation in the UK, independent verification is actually worth quite a lot.

Feral_Moon

sangie595 wrote: »

Really? Your knowledge would appear to be wrong. There are several institutions and universities offering level 7 qualifications, just in the UK. And what you personally consider Kennel Club accreditation to be worth is neither here nor there - it is a recognised standard of independently verified practitioner ability. Since there is no regulation in the UK, independent verification is actually worth quite a lot.

So why can't you name which course it is then? Unless veterinary professionals are satisfied enough to make clinical referrals then a qualification isn't worth the paper it's written upon. And very few are!

Paradigm

sangie595 wrote: »

The same breed of dog in a restricted domestic environment may often find that the level of meat protein in these foods has behavioural impacts - it makes them hyper!

Do you have any links to studies which show this to be true?

adandem

OP I will only buy ethical pet food, pedigree in it's many guises is not ethical.
There's plenty of good foods out there, branded or unbranded which provide good nutrition but do not test on animals.

rising_from_the_ashes

sangie595 wrote: »

But be aware that food branded for working dogs, if it is indeed for working dogs, is much higher in protein than the majority of domestic dogs require. This may be responsible for long term damage to health and behaviour. If you but such food for a dog that is low energy or doesn't use much energy, you should balance it by adding mixer or vegetables to reduce the protein content.

Sorry but that is complete and utter rubbish!

There is a big difference in protein from 'unnecessary' things added to food to protein from meat sources - that's absolutely fine

Otherwise, why do you think there are so many foods around with 60 - 70% and even more meat protein in?

All our dogs have been fed working dog food - none of them have worked - and all have been healthy, happy and certainly not hyper!

If you look at many of the 'working dog' manufacturers products & compare the 'working' and 'normal' varieties you will find very, very little difference - the working one is branded as such to avoid VAT being added eg working dog food: https://www.monsterpetsupplies.co.uk/dog/wet-dog-food/gelert-country-choice-tray-varieties-12-x-395g?gclid=Cj0KEQjw5ti3BRD89aDFnb3SxPcBEiQAssnp0tPaM-P5huTLhl34E-c9sE3wXntm4xfPjQ6QVs70NokaAlLy8P8HAQ = 10.5% protein (that's hardly high is it .....) to non working dog food https://www.webbox.co.uk/products/dog/webbox-natural-tray-chicken ohhhh guess what 10.5% protein!

GwylimT

Feral_Moon wrote: »

Working dog food is a classification to avoid paying VAT. It has absolutely nothing to do with the content of protein or indeed any other ingredient. They are identical products apart from description.

Lots of people ignorantly think its a different food, I find it worrying that an owner wouldn't even look at the ingredients and nutritional content of their animals food!!! Apparently a level 7 qualification doesn't enlighten some people to this basic fact.

Huskyrunner

Pedigree falls into the same category as bakers dog food in my view no matter how skint we were i wouldnt feed it.

We have our guys on raw meal one, and arden grange performance meal 2 and our guys are all in great condition. The kibble we use maybe expensive but we don't need too feed loads of it.

Its a bit horrible but look at the bigger picture ie whats coming out the dogs back end lol if its the size of a babies arm and your dog guffs like a steam train its rubbish quality

I would check out pedigree on that dog food review site in a previous post