What's the best unbranded dog food?

pathtofreedom

Do you have an kennels or dog agility training places near you? I buy my dogs food from the kennels my dog stays at in the day when I'm at work. It is an unbranded version of james wellbeloved so the same food with no enumbers, hypo-allergenic etc but just half the cost. They get it in bulk and resell it at a small mark up.

If you're changing a dogs food you need to slowly introduce it over a few weeks, mixing in more of the new stuff and less of the old each few days if that makes sense. Else you'll end up with some interesting poo problems.

GwylimT

Personally I wouldn't feed pedigree to my worst enemy, nevermind a dog.

Our dog is almost entirely raw fed, he does have a very small amount ot biscuits (taste of the wild) as we use these as treats.

GwylimT

sangie595 wrote: »

This is not correct - it is a myth arising from the "dogs are wolves" brigade. Domestic dogs have evolved as omnivores, not carnivores. There are health and behavioural problems associated with too much meat protein in a dogs diet. See, for example, http://web-dvm.net/dogs-are-omnivores-and-should-be-fed-as-such/. Some meats, such as liver, should even be severely restricted - some is good for them, too much causes joint damage. There is a reason why some dog food is sold for working dogs and it is different from that sold for domestic dogs. Otherwise there would be no requirement for food for working dogs.

By the way, although wolves are classed as carnivores, they also supplement their diet with other things.

As someone who has lived with pet and working dogs for most of his life, and who has grown up with a dad who is a UK renowed sheep dog trainer. There certainly isn't a need for working dog food.

Fosterdog

sangie595 wrote: »

This is not correct - it is a myth arising from the "dogs are wolves" brigade. Domestic dogs have evolved as omnivores, not carnivores. There are health and behavioural problems associated with too much meat protein in a dogs diet. See, for example, http://web-dvm.net/dogs-are-omnivores-and-should-be-fed-as-such/. Some meats, such as liver, should even be severely restricted - some is good for them, too much causes joint damage. There is a reason why some dog food is sold for working dogs and it is different from that sold for domestic dogs. Otherwise there would be no requirement for food for working dogs.

By the way, although wolves are classed as carnivores, they also supplement their diet with other things.

I spent two and a half years fully researching before I switched to raw. I am not part of the "dogs are wolves brigade" I know they are different. I also know that not every meat should be fed freely (the correct balance is around 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other offal). A raw diet actually clear up more illnesses and behavioural problems than it causes, the sugars, fillers and poor quality ingredients in dog foods are a massive cause of both illnesses and behavioural problems. A raw diet does still have to be balanced and the same as anything if the balance is wrong it can have adverse effects.

You really think one link written by vets who get very limited nutritional training which is held by dog food manufacturers is a reliable source? They are trained to feed and recommend these rubbish diets for the companies to make financial gain. More and more vets are doing their own research into canine nutrition and are starting to believe raw is best, they are not being taught that by anyone making a financial gain out of it.

I can post links to back up my side too......these were not written for financial gain but based on science, dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats are but they are still carnivores. It doesn't mean they don't sometimes eat other things, whether out of boredom, hunger, sickness or one animal just liking the taste of something but their main diet is carnivourous. A dog could survive on a vegetarian diet but it wouldn't thrive on one as they don't digest and utilise the nutrients very well at all. If you've ever fed a dog a whole carrot you will notice it comes out the other end as undigested orange chunks. If the carrot is cooked or pur!ed first the dog can get major nutrients out of it and there will be less undigested carrot eliminated from the other end.

I use veg as a filler for my boy who is prone to weight gain, if he seems hungry after a meal he gets some veg to bulk out the meal but not give him weight gain as he is not digesting it just passing it through. My girl gets very little veg as she has no need for it at all.

http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/
http://www.nomorevetbills.com/2011/the-big-debate-are-dogs-carnivores-or-omnivores/

sangie595

Fosterdog wrote: »

You really think one link written by vets who get very limited nutritional training which is held by dog food manufacturers is a reliable source? They are trained to feed and recommend these rubbish diets for the companies to make financial gain. More and more vets are doing their own research into canine nutrition and are starting to believe raw is best, they are not being taught that by anyone making a financial gain out of it.

There are many other such links, and vets are not trained in their nutritional knowledge by dog food manufacturers. Whilst the raw diet is considered nirvana by some, there are equally strong (and qualified) views to the contrary. And if you think that a dog cannot thrive on a vegetarian diet, that simply shows that you have no knowledge of vegetarian dog diets - many do in fact thrive on such diets, and in fact one dog I have personal knowledge of has had to be removed from any meat in its diet for medical reasons, and is now thriving on a meat free diet instead of the diet of meat that was killing it slowly. Admitted, that is a rare circumstance - but it shows that your point is not applicable - dogs can thrive on vegetarian diets if the balance is good, just as a balanced meat diet is required.

You may have done two and a half years research (I assume you are a vet or other professional and can actually test the science?) before deciding on this particular diet. So there is no way that we will ever agree on this. But I have now nearly completed my fourth and final year of professional study in dog behaviourism and am about to get my full Kennel Club accreditation. This is a level 7 qualification (equivalent to a Masters degree). We are trained in dietary requirements and the impacts of diet on dogs. And diet is one of the first things we consider when faced with behavioural issues in dogs, because it is often a factor in behaviour. Too high a protein level in domestic dogs is a common factor in poor behaviours - many domestic dogs simply do not get enough exercise to use the protein effectively. Indeed, in some dogs with behavioural problems, a change in diet is all they need to help them on their way. That may not be always about meat protein content - it could be a number of things - but high meat content is one thing that contributes to poor behaviours in some dogs.These are things we have been taught by qualified professionals and science - not a single dog food manufacturer in sight.

We are never going to agree on this point clearly, but I would point out that for all the advocates of the BARF diet, there are just as many detractors who are equally qualified and experienced to express and opinion on the science of the matter. It is not the case that this is an undisputedly excellent diet and the best that one can provide for dogs. Many dogs, in fact the majority of dogs, live long and healthy lives on "normal" diets.

sangie595

GwylimT wrote: »

As someone who has lived with pet and working dogs for most of his life, and who has grown up with a dad who is a UK renowed sheep dog trainer. There certainly isn't a need for working dog food.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But working dogs do use a significant amount more energy than their domestic counterparts, which is why good working dog food is higher in meat proteins. The same breed of dog in a restricted domestic environment may often find that the level of meat protein in these foods has behavioural impacts - it makes them hyper! In practice I have seen several cases of "working dogs" in domestic circumstances who have been fed working dog food when not living working dog lives - and a simple change from working dog to normal food has calmed them down from their previous 18 hour long "zoomies". Like you I have been brought up with pet and working dogs, and I am an agility and obedience trainer and competitor. My border collies have always had "jobs" and are well exercised mentally and physically, but I am sure you will have observed that dogs like Borders, when in domestic situations, can become neurotic and poorly behaved. One of the causes of this can be dietary - the other obviously being that the owner is inexperienced in meeting the dogs needs.

GwylimT

sangie595 wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily disagree. But working dogs do use a significant amount more energy than their domestic counterparts, which is why good working dog food is higher in meat proteins. The same breed of dog in a restricted domestic environment may often find that the level of meat protein in these foods has behavioural impacts - it makes them hyper! In practice I have seen several cases of "working dogs" in domestic circumstances who have been fed working dog food when not living working dog lives - and a simple change from working dog to normal food has calmed them down from their previous 18 hour long "zoomies". Like you I have been brought up with pet and working dogs, and I am an agility and obedience trainer and competitor. My border collies have always had "jobs" and are well exercised mentally and physically, but I am sure you will have observed that dogs like Borders, when in domestic situations, can become neurotic and poorly behaved. One of the causes of this can be dietary - the other obviously being that the owner is inexperienced in meeting the dogs needs.

No, never owned a neurotic or poorly behaved dog. Never witnessed a dog become hyperactive eating a diet it is designed for (raw).

Rev

kezzann wrote: »

I currently buy pedigree but i wanna know if anyone uses any unbranded stuff that's just as good?

thanks! :j

Sorry but pedigree isn't good. In any way. It's not even cheap. You can get vastly better food for the money. So an unbranded food wouldn't have to go very far to be better than pedigree.


Check the all about dog food link posted above.

sangie595

GwylimT wrote: »

No, never owned a neurotic or poorly behaved dog. Never witnessed a dog become hyperactive eating a diet it is designed for (raw).

And that is probably because you do not have sufficient experience of dog behaviors and all dogs. I have never owned a neurotic or poorly behaved dog either. That doesn't mean they don't exist. And if you have never witnessed a dog become hyperactive or have other behavioural, or physical, reactions to too much meat protein, that also does not mean it doesn't happen - it means you haven't witnessed it. I have witnessed and treated it.

Your answer is typical of the narrow view. You have decided something and so it must be true. Someone else agrees with you so it must be true. Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Anyone with different experience than you must also be wrong.

I personally would not feed a dog Pedigree. But plenty of people do, and they manage to have healthy dogs who have long lives. To suggest that yours is the only way to a healthy, happy, well fed dog, or that somehow this is the only "natural" thing ( try looking at the diet of wild dogs or feral dogs - they are also omnivores) and nothing else will do is nothing more than a narrow minded opinion. What you choose to feed your dog is your prerogative. But it isn't some super diet, or the best diet - it is a diet, and the one you have chosen. There are many other diets, and there is no single viewpoint about validity.

Fosterdog

sangie595 wrote: »

Your answer is typical of the narrow view. You have decided something and so it must be true. Someone else agrees with you so it must be true. Anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Anyone with different experience than you must also be wrong

This is exactly what you are doing in your posts, you are so stuck in your opinion that you are disregarding other people's personal experiences.

I have also never met a neurotic dog on a raw diet, I have met and worked with numerous dogs with problems, particularly some of abuse cases I have fostered and I have seen the effects a dietary issue can have on behaviour first hand but I have never seen of and before your post never heard of a balanced raw diet causing any issue with behaviour. I have seen and heard of countless dogs who's behaviour has improved on a raw diet.

An unbalanced diet can cause it, whether raw or not, I have seen it in a raw fed dog who's owner fed no offal at all, it threw the balance out and led to some problems but within weeks of the diet being corrected and offal being introduced the behaviour issues stopped.

Please I beg you if you are trained to the level you say you are and are giving people advice on their dogs (who probably already have issues if they are hiring a professional) do real research into a raw diet so next time you come across one of these many raw fed dogs with behaviour issues instead of instantly blaming the overall diet advise them on getting the correct balance. I guarentee you will see a positive behaviour change to coincide with the diet rebalance.

I'm not saying not to have your preference for a food but if you are going to be any good at your profession you owe it to the people paying for your service and the dogs you'll be helping to be fully informed before discounting a raw diet.