The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

One consideration that seems to be coming across is the risk averse caution that drives the fear of change.

I wrote above about the Whisky industry and potential for growth there, but I also recall how BrewDog has recently been valued at over £1 Billion.

The two entrpreneurs set up the business only 10 years ago out of a garage and certainly would not be where they are now with the risk averse cautious nature that so many have.

I think we need as a country to be more open to change and the rewards that come with the risks

Time to move on from the narrow circular arguments. A couple of years back it was oil being the saviour. Now it's Scotland turning overnight into a country full of entrepreneurs. Unfortunately it's the policy makers that create such an environment. The blinkered vision of the SNP is shutting out creativity. Instead uncertainty is raining down in buckets.

Your prize jewel of Brewdog is now US owned. Down here micro breweries now get shunned if they sell out. People are appreciating the value of local, unique companies.

Shaka_Zulu

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I'm interested, what specifically were they elected to do that you believe they have failed to do?

Can you show us anything they have done?

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

Interestingly I reckon you could have some good arguments against the 8.3% of £1Trn+

Has 8.3% been spent in Scotland.

certainly there are huge infrastructure projects benefiting England i.e. HS1 & HS2 which Scotland sees no benefit from.

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of how much and where the money was spent.

If we go that far why not back to the treaty of union and how much English money was spent in Scotland since, then we can talk nitty gritty.

TrickyTree83

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

One consideration that seems to be coming across is the risk averse caution that drives the fear of change.

I wrote above about the Whisky industry and potential for growth there, but I also recall how BrewDog has recently been valued at over £1 Billion.

The two entrpreneurs set up the business only 10 years ago out of a garage and certainly would not be where they are now with the risk averse cautious nature that so many have.

I think we need as a country to be more open to change and the rewards that come with the risks

Fantastic. Shame you'll be screwing the brewdog owners if the UK gets a bad deal from the EU as the SNP want to see in order to encourage independence.

Why does circular logic only work for some and not others I wonder?

Shaka_Zulu

IveSeenTheLight wrote: »

I wrote above about the Whisky industry and potential for growth there, but I also recall how BrewDog has recently been valued at over £1 Billion.

Do you think that is reasonable valuation on turnover of £70m (Dec 2016 figure)?

Or is that pie in the sky too like SNP policies!

TrickyTree83

sss555s wrote: »

If you are getting your figures from GERS then it's a load of BS as I have pointed out before.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Expenditure_and_Revenue_Scotland

That quote at the top of the GERS wiki tells you all you need to know.

Some of the things that will change are the costs of the union...

Scotland recently pays £3bn for defence when only £2bn is spent in Scotland and it is estimated it would cost £1.5bn to maintain a similar service. Scotland would also receive payment for the use of Faslane.

Westminster lumped on a £2bn "extra" oil tax a few years ago which was credited to Westminster. (it has since been reduced/ removed because it was stifling the industry.

Scotland paid £1.3bn in admin costs. Similar sized countries as Scotland are paying 50% of that figure.

Westminster charges Scotland £60m per year for the privilege. It's not much but it's a saving.

There are a whole host of costs lumped onto Scotland and a whole host of profits unaccounted for in Scotland's name. This is why I close my eyes to the deficit claims just as some close their eyes to the facts above.

If you want to be in NATO then you can forget any savings on defence unless Scottish GDP shrinks. Which it probably will, but you shouldn't want for it.

Show me this mysterious tax on oil. Show me where it is destroying jobs in and around Aberdeen.

Your admin costs are centralised and shared. You understand the cost saving concept there I imagine, it's kind of tried and tested. When you need to set up all your own governmental departments, will they be paid for with fairy dust? Not only will existing costs go up but new costs you haven't even considered will manifest themselves. But what's the worst that can happen... right?

Thus far all the Indy economics have fallen flat on their face, when you provide the detail behind these claims (if you can) I expect exactly the same.

Then we can get back to you calling GERS a bunch of lies, whilst the Scottish government use it yearly and use it as a basis for the Growth Commission.

elantan

Been away for a couple of days ... walked into a pub yesterday and heard the news ... interesting times

Mistermeaner

A girl from Plymouth walks into a bar....

Shakethedisease

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you want to be in NATO then you can forget any savings on defence unless Scottish GDP shrinks. Which it probably will, but you shouldn't want for it.

Show me this mysterious tax on oil. Show me where it is destroying jobs in and around Aberdeen.

Your admin costs are centralised and shared. You understand the cost saving concept there I imagine, it's kind of tried and tested. When you need to set up all your own governmental departments, will they be paid for with fairy dust? Not only will existing costs go up but bee costs you haven't even considered will manifest themselves. But what's the worst that can happen... right?

Thus far all the Indy economics have fallen flat on their face, when you provide the detail behind these claims (if you can) I expect exactly the same.

Then we can get back to you calling GERS a bunch of lies, whilst the Scottish government use it yearly and use it as a basis for the Growth Commission.

Sheesh and they say us Scots nats go round in circular arguments. Cling onto GERS if you must as a comfort blanket. But it's rapidly fraying at the edges, untrusted anymore as more and more ordinary voters are exposed to it's many flaws and is likely irrelevant once Brexit gets going.

Scotland would have the opportunity to do things differently. Sorting out the tax situation regarding oil would be a good starting point.


https://extractives.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04366849

In 2015, Shell paid $4.1bn to Norway BUT Shell receives rebate from UK of $122m

In 2015 Norway generated 17bn from oil and gas industries. The UK 43 million ?

If these figures about are true then something has or is going very wrong somewhere. Surely any Scottish Govt of whatever flavour can do better than this with it's resources. No one is saying GERS isn't the only starting point we currently have to go on. But it's a question of doing better with what we have in future.

Scotland has a lot of resources, which could and should be used to maximum advantage. Under Westminster governance however, they're either being held back ( renewables for example ) or have been stripped to the point of worthlessness. No likelyhood of change either while in the current set up. GERS will probably show forevermore that Scotland cannot possibly survive without the UK. Yet within the UK things are unlikely to change and this is the crux of the matter.

I'm so glad though that oil won't play a factor in economics of the next referendum/vote. We just go round in circles on it.

NATO. Even if Scotland doesn't join her geographical significance makes protection inevitable.


NATO support is a relatively new thing for the SNP who were against membership for many years. But since policy is decided by party members at conference, the last vote squeaked through in support. I doubt it's an issue that many are particularly passionate about.

Shaka_Zulu

Shakethedisease wrote: »

NATO. Even if Scotland doesn't join her geographical significance makes protection inevitable.

Nats not paying their way, that's a new one........:rotfl: