The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

ash28

Shakethedisease wrote: »

The UK is leaving the EU though. Why would any of those countries want to bend over backwards keeping Theresa May etc happy now ? The EU negotiate as a block anyway not separate countries. What you don't seem to have realised also is that Sturgeon even stating her intention to hold one has taken all Scottish assets off the negotiating table already. It's also stopped all casual assumptions, as May was doing at the Scottish Tory conference, of even attempting to rewrite the Scotland Act in order to take powers back from Holyrood to Westminster. I think that will be off the agenda for a while.

Good luck trying to bargain with question marks like those hanging over for example fishing grounds.

Lastly, the very, very best of luck trying to sell the idea that Scotland won't be in the EU to Scots voters as some sort of scare story.. Not when Article 50 is about to be triggered. It really is the most silly, !!!!!!, amusing case to be making against Scottish independence. :cool:

I'm not against Scottish independence, I would be happy for Scotland to be independent and Wales and Northern Ireland. I wasn't against it in 2014 either. Just because I'm not against it doesn't mean I'm for it either, I'm fairly neutral.

I thought it had been made fairly clear that Scotland would be outside of the EU in the event either of independence or Brexit. But perhaps the noises coming from the EU Commission and the Barosso doctrine applying are just noises and they don't mean it. Does the EU still need to keep the UK sweet? No, so why would the Commission spokesman make a statement like that now the UK is leaving the EU. I don't know why he would but maybe you do.

On the subject of trade deals, Spain for instance:

Spain will be supporting a number of the United Kingdom’s demands at the negotiations, such as a temporary trade deal in parallel with the withdrawal agreement. The report talks of “temporary measures” in a number of areas.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2017/03/10/inenglish/1489134826_157952.html

And while the UK economy will be hit by Brexit so will the rest of the EU countries and those hit will want to look after their own national, political and economic interests (like Spain) and will fight for those as hard as UK fights its own corner. Trade deals will be done even it they are initially temporary or transitional. To think otherwise is naive.

One benefit of independence for Scotland is that there will no one left to blame and it's the same for Brexit.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

You should all just really admit, that in your absolute desperation to stop/block or delay another referendum. Write to MP's, sign that meaningless petition !!! What really scares you most is the fact there's a good chance you'll lose it. And that Scotland might 'make a success of it' ..by staying in a market you're really not sure is a good idea to leave.. but are going along with it all crossing your fingers madly hoping it won't be as bad as you think it could be ( No deal/crap deal with the EU ).

May is terrified. She looked well rattled in that hastily arranged interview on Monday, cancelled announcing Article 50 the next day as everyone was expecting and is now arranging a 'tour' of the devolved nations in order to 'build consensus' before triggering it.

Sinn Fein are now also after a border poll and I saw a poll tonight that most in the Republic of Ireland agree with them. May's got a lot of domestic problems at the moment to deal with as well as Brexit. Yet has alienated the EU also with hubris over her opening negotiating stance.

As usual unable to grasp the point I see. I was not talking about a petition, I was talking about a Court case, a legal challenge. And no, I would not raise such a court case, it is better, far better, that it is done by Scots.

Also no, I am not afraid of the result, but I am concerned about the effect such a move would have on the UK's negotiation with the EU. The SNP's actions are a hostile act against the UK and thus also a hostile act against all those who would vote to stay in the Union.

But as I wrote, keep on trumpeting, it will only help to pull tne plug on an SNP illegitimate independence referendum however it is worded.

beecher2

Reports that Theresa May will not allow second referendum
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15161024.May_will_rule_out_second_independence_referendum_this_afternoon__sources_suggest/

Surely she'll say that it has to be after Brexit, ie allow Section 30 with a sunrise clause?

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Reports that Theresa May will not allow second referendum
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15161024.May_will_rule_out_second_independence_referendum_this_afternoon__sources_suggest/

Surely she'll say that it has to be after Brexit, ie allow Section 30 with a sunrise clause?

A blanket no would appear to me to be unfair, but a delay is perfectly reasonable to all parties concerned. If an illegitimate referendum on constitutional affairs is unilaterally announced I'd expect it to be challenged in court.

.string.

beecher2 wrote: »

Reports that Theresa May will not allow second referendum
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15161024.May_will_rule_out_second_independence_referendum_this_afternoon__sources_suggest/

Surely she'll say that it has to be after Brexit, ie allow Section 30 with a sunrise clause?

One can only guess, but I am hoping it is when negotiations are fully completed. I also hope that she does not commit to an open ended commitment but instead state that she will only consider a formal request and that after said negotiations

.string.

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

A blanket no would appear to me to be unfair, but a delay is perfectly reasonable to all parties concerned. If an illegitimate referendum on constitutional affairs is unilaterally announced I'd expect it to be challenged in court.

The trouble is that at this time we can't be sure of the schedule. Yes I know. That the EU wants agreement by a certain time but we should all be wary of that (Oct 2018 was it?). I would not be surprised to see this go down to the wire and beyond It. Siting a referendum at a time when there may well remain uncertainty would not be smart.

beecher2

.string. wrote: »

One can only guess, but I am hoping it is when negotiations are fully completed. I also hope that she does not commit to an open ended commitment but instead state that she will only consider a formal request and that after said negotiations

I think a sunset clause would be simpler, but don't know if that has to have a certain date, or can just say once negotiations are complete. Or maybe when it goes to parliament makes more sense?

I think NS did say something about it being in her specified timeframe, if possible, so I don't think it has to be seen really negatively but the government will have to be very careful with their language I think.

beecher2

Ruth Davidson on FMQ

a referendum "cannot happen" before people of Scotland see how new relationship with EU is working

which sounds even later on in proceedings. We won't know that for a long time, surely?

TrickyTree83

beecher2 wrote: »

Ruth Davidson on FMQ


which sounds even later on in proceedings. We won't know that for a long time, surely?

Robert Peston reporting that May has said no.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/842356145448751105

Keep your eye on all that money donated to ScotRef (a.k.a IndyRef2, such a blatant propaganda move btw).

kabayiri

beecher2 wrote: »

I think a sunset clause would be simpler, but don't know if that has to have a certain date, or can just say once negotiations are complete. Or maybe when it goes to parliament makes more sense?
...

Those who seem familiar with the inner workings of the EU seem to suggest that the usual modus operandi is one of 11th hour resolution to thorny issues.

We might not be able to make any real sense of what A50 means until the actual window closes.

If I were a Scottish independence voter, I would prefer to have the actual details over speculation. I followed the threads on the recent Scottish indyref, and too much felt up in the air to me. You'd hope for better second time around.