The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

of course , every country in the EU wants scotland to join asap ; its just that they are a little shy about saying so.

That'll be because England and Wales have suddenly become more than a little coy, possibly even phobic about actually leaving...

elantan

He's back ... not that he went away just reinvented himself ... it's been an interesting day on twitter ...

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

That'll be because England and Wales have suddenly become more than a little coy, possibly even phobic about actually leaving...

no idea what you mean
it will take a littel time for brexit to be worked out, then a lot of negotiation anf then the leave
personally I see this as taking some time
in contrast I would have expected the SNP to be able to say clearly what currency they would be using after Iscotland after 30 years of deliberation

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Here's one of the tabloid ones.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independent-scotland-would-only-need-8343623

More of her work is easily Googled, but the main case she makes that Article 50 as you state only requires a majority to pass.The EU will pass Article 50 re Brexit via that majority but with Scotland removed. Hence Scotland remains via those means, rather than Articles 48 or 49 ( which we bantered back and forth about a lot in 2014 ) or any sort of reapplication.

Spain also gets a free pass on vetoing Scotland expressly as even if they say no, aware of Catalonia... they can claim 'sadly' that it was a will of the EU not Spain. But still keep those fishing quotas anyway.

https://constitution-unit.com/tag/sionaidh-douglas-scott/

Thank you,

I find that the Majority vote for article 50 is a Qualified Majority. The relevant text in article 50 is:

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

A link for that us readily obtained by linking part of the text.

While I'm at it I might as well give the link for a remark I've made 2 times before, namely that the UK could withdraw Article 50 and remain a member of the EU provided that the act of separation has not already place.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-how-does-article-50-work-2016-7

That is, of course, an opinion only and not tested as is the case also in the opinion given in your link, but the source of the opinion is rather authoritative.

.string.

Hampered as I am at the moment in my googling, I did, of course, run a quick check on Sionaidh Douglas-Scott

I found a blog contribution where she says things which will delight you Shakey, but I have to conclude that she starts at the Nationalist side of the argument, the argument being more about what she thinks should be the situation regarding Scottish Membership of the EU rather than the actual situation at the moment.

The Jury is out on her opinion but at the moment there is somewhat of a credibility gap there.

http://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/independent-scotland-eu

TrickyTree83

.string. wrote: »

Hampered as I am at the moment in my googling, I did, of course, run a quick check on Sionaidh Douglas-Scott

I found a blog contribution where she says things which will delight you Shakey, but I have to conclude that she starts at the Nationalist side of the argument, the argument being more about what she thinks should be the situation regarding Scottish Membership of the EU rather than the actual situation at the moment.

The Jury is out on her opinion but at the moment there is somewhat of a credibility gap there.

http://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/independent-scotland-eu

If this legal interpretation is correct, well... just because, why isn't the legal interpretation of Brexit by these also correct just because they speak legalese?

http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/brexit.shtml

Surly not every legal opinion can be correct, can it?

Just playing devils advocate.

Rinoa

Another poll saying Scots aren't that keen on independence.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/another-poll-shows-brexit-hasnt-changed-scottish-appetite-independence/

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Hampered as I am at the moment in my googling, I did, of course, run a quick check on Sionaidh Douglas-Scott

I found a blog contribution where she says things which will delight you Shakey, but I have to conclude that she starts at the Nationalist side of the argument, the argument being more about what she thinks should be the situation regarding Scottish Membership of the EU rather than the actual situation at the moment.

The Jury is out on her opinion but at the moment there is somewhat of a credibility gap there.

http://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/independent-scotland-eu

It's not only her. I've posted links before about this issue. I can't be bothered scrolling back though, but there was an LSE post that also indicated that Scotland should use Article 50 ( ie remove all references to Scotland ). Hold on, found it.

Paradoxically, at first sight a Brexit could address all these difficulties. The gist of the reasoning would be as follows: if the UK as a whole votes to leave the EU, while in Scotland a majority votes to stay, the procedure of Article 50 TEU could be used to allow the UK (minus Scotland) to withdraw from the EU, while Scotland would be entitled to pursue the UK’s EU Membership. Both issues would of course have to be negotiated by the (still unified) UK government. While the Article 50 TEU solution would not do away with all legal and political obstacles, it would be less uncertain than the options of going through Article 48 or 49 TEU...

..Although Article 50 TEU only prescribes the procedure for a Member State (e.g. the UK) to leave the EU, this provision can also serve to govern the withdrawal of only a part of a state (e.g. England, Wales and Northern-Ireland) and as a legal basis to keep an independent Scotland in the EU in the context of a Brexit..

..While under international law, Scotland would become a new legal entity, in the EU legal order it could remain being regarded as the Member State that joined in 1973.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/a-brexit-could-make-it-easier-for-scotland-to-join-the-eu-as-an-independent-state/

Full article at link. This was written in March this year well before the referendum and nothing to do with Ms Douglas-Scott. Sometimes the very simplest solutions are also the best and most pragmatic. England and Wales leave via Article 50. Scotland doesn't. No need for veto's or long term reapplication's and admittance. Everyone's happy right ?

No one is saying there aren't massive challenges ahead on all sides regarding Brexit, lets face it. But the above solution has been advocated as a potential way forward by a few separate EU legal experts now. Is likely to be one the Scottish Govt explores in depth.

Shakethedisease

Rinoa wrote: »

Another poll saying Scots aren't that keen on independence.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/another-poll-shows-brexit-hasnt-changed-scottish-appetite-independence/

Keener than they were in 2014. Is creeping up nicely.

A full 12% now undecided. There's another question mark over EU nationals being included at all. A strange a never, ever seen before on any independence poll ever..weird double digit gender gap No lead among Men (which is extremely odd ), and another with the age grouping from 35-44 suddenly leading for No after poll after poll showing otherwise since well before the 2014 ref.

Brexit hasn't started yet and independence is apparently just 3 points or a polling margin of error away. I'll take it.

CLAPTON

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Keener than they were in 2014. Is creeping up nicely.

A full 12% now undecided. There's another question mark over EU nationals being included at all. A strange a never, ever seen before on any independence poll ever..weird double digit gender gap No lead among Men (which is extremely odd ), and another with the age grouping from 35-44 suddenly leading for No after poll after poll showing otherwise since well before the 2014 ref.

Brexit hasn't started yet and independence is apparently just 3 points or a polling margin of error away. I'll take it.

nicola will wait for 60%