The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

.string. wrote: »

Good, then you'll appreciate me telling you you once again that you have it wrong;
My words do not say she had applied, but that she got her come-uppance on an application to join the EU, which is what she was talking about. Had I wanted to refer to a real application I would, if of course, have said it was refused. But they certainly put the kaibosh on Sturgeons wish to apply for EU Membership.

I don't know what you mean by "and edited" are you implying that I changed the text after your comment?

No, as has been said its just an invented slight to avoid facing the rejection of Sturgeon's fast-track EU membership. A deflection from facts.

On your claim that Verhofstadt's appointment somehow trumps the statements made by his political masters, that's pure bumkum. The EU team of so-called hardliners simply mirrors our own team of Brexit fanatics. I look to political leaders in the EU and Ma on the UK side to moderate intransigence at the negotiation table.

I feel that my apologies may be due to you.
I sincerely did not wish to appear to be "fighting your corner" as Shakey so eloquently describes.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to put it down to my dislike for untruths maybe, since such obvious deception in pursuance of gaining favour does rankle.
Again, my apologies for stepping in where perhaps I should not.

TrickyTree83

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Sadly your statement would appear to be quite correct.

The days of great earnings from oil are gone, perhaps forever.
Nations more reliant upon oil than Scotland have all been suffering; even the once-extremely-wealthy Saudis are experiencing difficulties.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/08/31/482507/Saudi-Arabia-cash-crunch-bonds-budget
There are also effects upon Russia, Venezuela and others.

No-one has yet suggested how an independent Scotland - whether in OR out of the EU - would achieve financial parity between GDP and expenditure.
Because the sad fact is that - without significant changes - the current level of expenditure is simply too high.
I have no desire to rekindle the "great deficit debate" BUT Scotland's finances do need to be more balanced than is currently the case.
Sensible ideas of how this can be done, anyone?

If you stick to the economic argument, there is no case to be independent and cause a rift, a potentially damaging rift depending upon the circumstances, with your largest market (64% of Scottish trade is done with the rest of the UK).

The economic arguments coming out of the independence camp were and are crap.

- (my favourite) mythical Whiskey Export Duty.
- allegedly inaccurate GERS figures to the tune of £billions despite Holyrood not claiming the same, just lay persons and professors of engineering I believe.
- reduction in defence spending, if anything it will increase as you install your own command and control structures, your own navy, air force and army.

There's always a loophole to look for rather than actually addressing the pressing issues head on.

Which is why I suggested the timing of pushing for independence again now is wrong. The 64% needs to be negated, non-UK trade in Scotland needs to increase to such a percentage as to make it as painless as possible, something like the 11% currently done with the EU by Scotland. The GERS figures need to be rubber stamped (if not already) or corrected, and then any deficit to be addressed, reduced or removed entirely. And Holyrood needs to be doing this, not the independence camp, they need to come up with plans on things like defence. If these people (the lay independence supporter) are capable of dreaming up things like Whiskey Export Duty and claiming it as fact and a reason for a financially viable and independent Scotland there are dangerous times ahead for the people of Scotland.

.string.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

... I have no desire to rekindle the "great deficit debate" BUT Scotland's finances do need to be more balanced than is currently the case.
Sensible ideas of how this can be done, anyone?

I take it as axiomatic that there exist, within the Scottish Government system, from top to bottom, areas where savings could be made. That's not a specific criticism, but a general Parkinsonium fact of life with any organisation.

So the first step would be to check through the way things are done and funded and where pet projects could be dropped. ... And then see where to go from there.

The other approach is to raise taxes to pay for those things.

Unfortunately I doubt if that is possible in Scotland's present political climate where anything which can attract the word "cuts" is villified as a Tory plot. That's a mindset which would be difficult to change. Further the obsession to use so much of Scotland's resources on high profile keep-the-SNP-in-power policies and shortcomings are used to demand more funding rather than savings.

I don't think it's possible with the SNP in power.

.string.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

I feel that my apologies may be due to you.
I sincerely did not wish to appear to be "fighting your corner" as Shakey so eloquently describes.
Perhaps you would be kind enough to put it down to my dislike for untruths maybe, since such obvious deception in pursuance of gaining favour does rankle.
Again, my apologies for stepping in where perhaps I should not.

No apology needed at all, in any case I need all the help I can get! You picked up on the deflection issue which has often been a contentious issue here.

The pizza was lousy by the way.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Heh heh....

The controversial pro-independence blog Wings Over Scotland has been suspended from Twitter amid complaints from a Daily Express journalist that the author had instigated a “hate mob” against her.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/pro-independence-blog-wings-over-scotland-has-been-suspended?utm_term=.qmzrWw8wEw#.igGz13L3D3

Not normally a fan of censorship but this is mildly amusing.

Hopefully Twitter will let him back on soon and this serves as a warning to the more rabid supporters to pull their necks in a bit...

TrickyTree83

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Heh heh....

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/pro-independence-blog-wings-over-scotland-has-been-suspended?utm_term=.qmzrWw8wEw#.igGz13L3D3

Not normally a fan of censorship but this is mildly amusing.

Hopefully Twitter will let him back on soon and this serves as a warning to the more rabid supporters to pull their necks in a bit...

There is a fair amount of self-perpetuating hate on WoS. None of the self-professed 'moderates' stand up against it. Being ignorant and welcoming them into the fold bolsters support for the cause I guess.

Shakethedisease

elantan wrote: »

I think the EU will play hardball and good luck to them ... I would if I were them as well

They will. This is potentially significant regarding Ireland/N Ireland.

No access to EU market without free movement - Irish PM tells Britain

The European Union will not give in to British demands for full access to the bloc's single market unless London allows free movement of people, Ireland's prime minister Enda Kenny said on Monday.
Britain's minister charged with negotiating Brexit, David Davis, said last week that it was pressing for a "unique" deal with the EU to restore sovereignty, reduce immigration by controlling its borders and boost trade with the bloc after the split.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ireland-idUKKCN11I0RI

.string.

For info
I see that Verhofstadt has accepted a challenge to his appointment being debated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdw50aL4bwM

Our local MEP, Julie Girling, flagged this last week.

Could be a bit of a waste of time probably, but maybe just worth if it drives out or away some entrenchment of ideas unbecoming a negotiator. I doubt it though, it's probably just a chance for Nigel to make a fool of himself and us.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

Good, then you'll appreciate me telling you you once again that you have it wrong;
My words do not say she had applied, but that she got her come-uppance on an application to join the EU, which is what she was talking about. Had I wanted to refer to a real application I would, if of course, have said it was refused. But they certainly put the kaibosh on Sturgeons wish to apply for EU Membership.

I'm getting a little weary of this. So she did apply, but not in any real sense ?

And no they didn't put the kibosh on anything. They appointed Guy Verhofstadt who is pro-Scotland remaining as one of the lead Brexit negotiators. The prospect of Scotland remaining in the EU is a very real one. Even in the very unlikely event EU membership doesn't happen if there's a referendum and a Yes vote ( too late after that the deed will have been done ), EFTA would still be open to Scotland should that happen along with possible membership of the Nordic council.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

For info
I see that Verhofstadt has accepted a challenge to his appointment being debated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdw50aL4bwM

Our local MEP, Julie Hurling, flagged this last week.

Could be a bit of a waste of time probably, but maybe just worth if it drives out or away some entrenchment of ideas unbecoming a negotiator. I doubt it though, it's probably just a chance for Nigel to make a fool of himself and us.

It's more or less a done deal. He only needs a majority in the EU parliament to secure his appointment. No matter how Farage and UKIP vote.

Wasn't Verhofstadt the one who stated that Farage's salary was the biggest waste of money in the EU ?