The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.

Thrugelmir

Is the Calmac ferry fiasco going to damage the emcumbrent Governmen further. Does seem extraordinary levels of inepitude just to score political points. 

baldelectrician

The calmac issue is being dealt with, but is costing far less than a 'Grayling'
A 'Grayling' is approximately half a billion pounds- this is the sum of the ferries that were not there plus the privatisation and reversal of the probation service in England / Wales.

The_Rainmaker

baldelectrician said:

The calmac issue is being dealt with, but is costing far less than a 'Grayling'

Oh look irrelevant deflection

abz88

Shakethedisease said:

You're again forgetting those who cannot vote in elections, yet can in a scottish independence referendum. The franchises are different. So yes, you're confusing support and you're still using the words 'indy parties'. There IS only one way to measure independence support in Scotland, and it's not through the SNP and their vote shares in elections. You cannot say that independence support remains below 50% of the voters by using a general election franchise. You need a referendum which includes all those elegible to vote in a referendum do that.

If Scotland wants another vote, then the Scottish Parliament which has already voted to hold one twice now, should organise one. It's as simple as that. Boris is quite free to challenge the Scottish parliament should be wish to do so. The mandate to hold a second indy ref has already been mandated and passed by the place that mandated and passed the last one. No one needs to 'show' anything to you or anyone else. All the proof you need is already at Holyrood.

The reason Nicola Sturgeon is going down in many voters estimations is that she has so far been reluctant to act decisively in organising a second ref despite winning mandates left right and centre. She's seen as being far too cautious when a lot of Scots voters don't want caution. We're out of the EU, and a catastrophic no trade deal scenario is still very much in the picture. We need action. It does seem though like many in the party, particularly Joanna Cherry QC are willing to make moves now regarding organising a second ref and facing down court action. And of course the court action which has already been started is due to pick up the pace in a few weeks time ( currently awaiting a response from the UK Govt, which of course won't be forthcoming).  I can see Joanna and other MP's and MSP's joining this now. Nicola needs to either pick up the mantle or else move aside as others do it anyway.

"Today's front page ...

@joannaccherry

says: Let's tell Boris we'll see him in court over indyref2"

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1226769518719991808

That's how our political system works, only our elected representatives can push forward their manifesto and there are two parties that support an Indy Ref, the SNP and now the Scottish Green party (as well as all these extremist parties you keep telling us are due to appear). We have elections and polls that show Indy support is still below 50%, we've already had a referendum and that showed support was below 50%. Polls haven't changed much at all since then, Brexit, 'broken promises' etc, none of that has moved the needle on Indy polls, Indy supporters just started to shout a bit louder.
It appears the Scottish Parliament doesn't agree with you on that one, as they are not planning on another vote if they do, then it will be up to courts to decide its validity.

abz88

Shakethedisease said:

You're making the assumption that at least half the don't knows will vote for the Union though. There is even less support for the Union than there is for indy averaging out those polls. Nowhere shows over 50% for the Union do they ? Don't knows are just that, they don't know and can't be counted as support for staying in the Union either. 

Again, we had a vote, we said No, there has been no major shift in the polls to suggest otherwise. The December Panel Base poll showed 50% for No, none have shown 50% for Yes. There has been no major shift in opinion as Indy supports keep claiming.

abz88

Enterprise_1701C said:

Shakethedisease said:

Is that so.. 

https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1223375941495394305?s=09

That tweet appears to have been made later than the one enclosed on the story I linked to which definitely intimates that it was down to the eu commission, and it appears that the sNP did not have permission.

Correct, Sturgeon tweeted that the EU Commission had "left a light on", so either she doesn't know what the SNP are actually up to and that her own party paid for it, or the SNP tried to distance themselves from her. Either way, it will be interesting to see what the Belgium police do 

Shakethedisease

abz88 said:

Shakethedisease said:

You're making the assumption that at least half the don't knows will vote for the Union though. There is even less support for the Union than there is for indy averaging out those polls. Nowhere shows over 50% for the Union do they ? Don't knows are just that, they don't know and can't be counted as support for staying in the Union either. 

Again, we had a vote, we said No, there has been no major shift in the polls to suggest otherwise. The December Panel Base poll showed 50% for No, none have shown 50% for Yes. There has been no major shift in opinion as Indy supports keep claiming.

Right. So you're all for conducting UK democracy a la YouGov ? Thats what you're really saying.  Would you not be better looking towards the Scottish Parliament perhaps ?
Honestly going by your posts we should just cancel elections and referendums and see what YouGov has to say. I guess we'd still be in the EU at least, Clinton would be President and Theresa May still PM after her whopping majority in 2017...
Polling shows... that polls can be wrong and certainly not relied on to base denial of what an entire parliament has already voted for. You'll have to do better than that I'm afraid. 

Shakethedisease

abz88 said:

Enterprise_1701C said:

Shakethedisease said:

Is that so.. 

https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1223375941495394305?s=09

That tweet appears to have been made later than the one enclosed on the story I linked to which definitely intimates that it was down to the eu commission, and it appears that the sNP did not have permission.

Correct, Sturgeon tweeted that the EU Commission had "left a light on", so either she doesn't know what the SNP are actually up to and that her own party paid for it, or the SNP tried to distance themselves from her. Either way, it will be interesting to see what the Belgium police do 

Strugeon tweeted about looking closely at the picture. There WAS a light on. A lot of newspapers cropped the pic out though. 
Anyway what a mountain out a molehill. Led by Donkeys do far more dramatic stuff than this. Boris even used to do zip slides. 

Get a grip. The SNP tweet went out and anyone following their account knew it was them that had 'sent a message' from a country that voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU. Well done and a timely reminder that Scotland is being huckled out of it against Scottish electoral wishes. The light on was in the corner of the pic and Sturgeon's attempt at humor while showcasing her nations wishes and thoughts about the EU.

Ps There was no report to the police. The Sun journo deleted his tweet saying he'd heard wrong. But not of course before other news outlets started jumping on it. Worked obviously because you're still posting misleading info about it.

abz88

Shakethedisease said:

Right. So you're all for conducting UK democracy a la YouGov ? Thats what you're really saying.  Would you not be better looking towards the Scottish Parliament perhaps ? Honestly going by your posts we should just cancel elections and referendums and see what YouGov has to say. I guess we'd still be in the EU at least, Clinton would be President and Theresa May still PM after her whopping majority in 2017...Polling shows... that polls can be wrong and certainly not relied on to base denial of what an entire parliament has already voted for. You'll have to do better than that I'm afraid. 

You claimed no poll should Remain at 50%, I stated a poll that did, in what way is that my claiming the country should be run by YouGov? You claim that support for Indy is above 50% but can't find anything to back this up, not a poll, not an election result, nothing. You are going from using three polls that show less than 50% are pro-Indy as proof that we need another Indy vote, to we can't trust polls (or is it that we can't trust polls that don't fit your agenda?) and that we should look to the Scottish Parliament (which we apparently also can't trust because it has a different range of voters). The Scottish Parliament has voted on something that Westminster has deemed to be a reserved issue, and the Scottish Parliament so far seem afraid to challenge this in the courts, that is where we are at.
I don't have to do better than that, it's the other way around. We had a vote, we voted No. If you want to hold another vote, you have to show why we should have another vote and what you are basing your upswing of support on (which according to you can't be based on poll, Westminster elections or Scottish Parliament elections).

Shakethedisease

abz88 said:

Shakethedisease said:

Right. So you're all for conducting UK democracy a la YouGov ? Thats what you're really saying.  Would you not be better looking towards the Scottish Parliament perhaps ? Honestly going by your posts we should just cancel elections and referendums and see what YouGov has to say. I guess we'd still be in the EU at least, Clinton would be President and Theresa May still PM after her whopping majority in 2017...Polling shows... that polls can be wrong and certainly not relied on to base denial of what an entire parliament has already voted for. You'll have to do better than that I'm afraid. 

You claimed no poll should Remain at 50%, I stated a poll that did, in what way is that my claiming the country should be run by YouGov? You claim that support for Indy is above 50% but can't find anything to back this up, not a poll, not an election result, nothing. You are going from using three polls that show less than 50% are pro-Indy as proof that we need another Indy vote, to we can't trust polls (or is it that we can't trust polls that don't fit your agenda?) and that we should look to the Scottish Parliament (which we apparently also can't trust because it has a different range of voters). The Scottish Parliament has voted on something that Westminster has deemed to be a reserved issue, and the Scottish Parliament so far seem afraid to challenge this in the courts, that is where we are at.
I don't have to do better than that, it's the other way around. We had a vote, we voted No. If you want to hold another vote, you have to show why we should have another vote and what you are basing your upswing of support on (which according to you can't be based on poll, Westminster elections or Scottish Parliament elections).

I'm going by the mandate win in 2016. You're going by YouGov and Panelbase. Do actual Scottish voters votes in Scottish General elections not count anymore for you ?