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The New Fat Scotland 'Thanks for all the Fish' Thread.
Comments
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OK. I should've been more specific (although I'm sure it wasn't required). The SNP feel the same way about the English as you do about Germans.
How do you know what I feel about the Germans, and why? Very well. To explain (again), I fear German power because the country my parents came from was under German (and Russian) occupation for more than 100 years before the First World War, and under German occupation during Second World War. The crimes the Germans committed against my people (including my own family) during all this time were absolutely horrific. It's something that no one who has not lived under such terrifying conditions can truly appreciate, and it has had a profound effect on my family. Unfortunately, I do not feel German aspirations for power have subsided, and that they are coming to the fore again (there is such a thing as a German national character). The fact that Germany wants to create a 'European army' should tell you something about German ambitions. What would it use such an army for? To keep the people of Europe under suppression? To think it could pose a threat to Russia (laughable, because Russia could obliterate a 'European army' in about two days)? I thought it was decided to weaken the German army so much after the Second World War that it could never again impose its ambitions on other nations? So why should it be allowed to attempt to do so again by stealth?
So the SNP's attitude towards the English is based on very different causes to my attitude towards Germany. There is simply no comparison, and I do not understand why the SNP behaves the way it does, and why it would want Scotland to be part of what is shaping up to be a totalitarian German empire (thus not actually having independence). Scotland and England went through so much together throughout history – I would have imagined they would both feel much closer to each other than to mainland Europe. Still, if Scotland feels it can do better on its own, as part of the undemocratic, dysfunctional Eurozone, which is falling apart anyway due to huge dissatisfaction among the countries of mainland Europe precisely because of the fears I have (as well as the economical errors imposed by the EU), then it should be allowed to depart.
For myself, I foresee extremely troubled times ahead on mainland Europe, unless the EU changes radically and removes the attempts at eradication of sovereignty of European nations, and maintains the EU as mainly an economic body. Removal of sovereignty and independence is something most European nations would not agree to (no matter how much the global financial elites who are behind such an idea desire it because it allows them to pay workforces ever-decreasing wages).0 -
I think any Scot would find it diificult to deny that there`s at least a widespread antipathy felt toward the English.
Just for clarity, I would deny that.
I think it's a pity that people south of the border buy into this myth.
You are correct that the SNP do try to cultivate it though, however much they would protest they don't.0 -
Just for clarity, I would deny that.
I think it's a pity that people south of the border buy into this myth.
You are correct that the SNP do try to cultivate it though, however much they would protest they don't.
Having looked at the voter figures there appears to be a core SNP support of circa 1.7m - 1.8m people.
The SNP do regularly speak ill of English MP's, who are chosen by English voters. Barnett is something (speaking as an Englishman) I feel is resented here in England, decades of investment higher than we get and still there is a structural budget deficit and still a weak economy, and lets just point out that since 1998 that's not the fault of English MP's.
Scottish MP's vote on laws (or used to) for the English, the opposite is not true since 1998. Ship building contracts go up to Scotland to keep jobs afloat there but shipyards in England miss out. When the oil industry started to struggle the UK taxpayer paid the bill. It would appears Westminster actually does a hell of a lot to help Scotland and it's just given the cold shoulder by the SNP and their supporters, repeatedly.
Scottish people get free prescriptions and free university tuition, where those of us of working age in England have to pay for prescriptions and come out of university saddled with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt.
These are just a few inequities between the two nations and some of you sit on here and have the bare faced cheek to say you'll do better without us. Is it any wonder some citizens of the rest of the UK are saying "fine, just go", particularly after you've already had an indy ref and put the entire UK through the mill only 2 years ago? You come across as thinking you have a more important vote than the 14 million other people around the UK who voted to Remain.0 -
TrickyTree83 wrote: »Having looked at the voter figures there appears to be a core SNP support of circa 1.7m - 1.8m people.
The SNP do regularly speak ill of English MP's, who are chosen by English voters. Barnett is something (speaking as an Englishman) I feel is resented here in England, decades of investment higher than we get and still there is a structural budget deficit and still a weak economy, and lets just point out that since 1998 that's not the fault of English MP's.
Scottish MP's vote on laws (or used to) for the English, the opposite is not true since 1998. Ship building contracts go up to Scotland to keep jobs afloat there but shipyards in England miss out. When the oil industry started to struggle the UK taxpayer paid the bill. It would appears Westminster actually does a hell of a lot to help Scotland and it's just given the cold shoulder by the SNP and their supporters, repeatedly.
Scottish people get free prescriptions and free university tuition, where those of us of working age in England have to pay for prescriptions and come out of university saddled with tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt.
These are just a few inequities between the two nations and some of you sit on here and have the bare faced cheek to say you'll do better without us. Is it any wonder some citizens of the rest of the UK are saying "fine, just go", particularly after you've already had an indy ref and put the entire UK through the mill only 2 years ago? You come across as thinking you have a more important vote than the 14 million other people around the UK who voted to Remain.
Yep, as a Scottish NO and Remain voter I agree with you 100%; we get a fantastic benefit from being part of the UK.
But people like myself, who are far more numerous than you guys would think, aren't responsible for the minority up here who cannot see that and who have the proverbial chip on their shoulder.
It is important that you realise that these people, Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon etc, etc, DO NOT speak for me, nor for the 2 million Scot's who voted NO in the referendum and they never will.
NO voters in Scotland are pro-uk, please don't write us off and abandon us.0 -
I see that Sturgeon is making politics out of Brexit for the cause of SNP Politics rather than out of any real concern.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36693048
It's very transparent; she knows perfectly well that the UK is concerned about the future of UK Nationals living abroad and would expect to get reciprocal arrangements with EU Countries during the Brexit negotiations. If the UK were to unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights they would loss an immigrant quid-pro-quo bargaining chip. So it's unlikely that the UK Government can give the assurance she talks about. In that way it's obvious she is after the EU immigrant vote in the event of a new Scottish Referendum.
I understand that the reply so far is to the effect that discussions are needed first.
I think the UK Government can do better than that.
If Sturgeon wants to play dirty, how about this for a first Draft:
The UK Government can assure EU citizens currently resident in the UK that they will continue to be able to remain resident in the UK to work and enjoy the benefits of the UK welfare system, inclusive of Pension Rights (if applicable) while they remain resident in the UK, subject to satisfactory reciprocal arrangements being agreed with the relevant country in the EU.
In other words : well work it out!Union, not Disunion
I have a Right Wing and a Left Wing.
It's the only way to fly straight.0 -
Yep, as a Scottish NO and Remain voter I agree with you 100%; we get a fantastic benefit from being part of the UK.
But people like myself, who are far more numerous than you guys would think, aren't responsible for the minority up here who cannot see that and who have the proverbial chip on their shoulder.
It is important that you realise that these people, Alex Salmond, Nicola Sturgeon etc, etc, DO NOT speak for me, nor for the 2 million Scot's who voted NO in the referendum and they never will.
NO voters in Scotland are pro-uk, please don't write us off and abandon us.
A query for information.
How should the overwhelming vote for the SNP be interpreted? It is something which is very puzzling. I'd everyone who votes for the SNP a separatist?Union, not Disunion
I have a Right Wing and a Left Wing.
It's the only way to fly straight.0 -
A quiet for information.
How should the overwhelming vote for the SNP be interpreted? It is something which is very puzzling. I'd everyone who votes for the SNP a separatist?
In the last Scottish elections SNP won about 50% of the vote the other parties combined also 50% of the vote but split between Tory/Labour/ Libs so SNP accrued more seats.
I know this is a difficult thing maybe for non Scottish voters to get their heads round but a big chunk of SNP voters don't much care for Independance; they think Sturgeon and co run a reasonable, conservative with a small c administration.
Most Scots cringe when she and others moan on about how hard done to scotland is by Westminster, (we are a well educated country, this is not a difficult transparency to see through).
The danger now of course is that due to the lack of any appetite within Scotland for a 2nd referendum the SNP are deliberately adopting a strategy to isolate ourselves from yourselves to foster a "just let them go" attitude which I hope non Scots can see through and reject.
Yes, we get a great deal out of being in the UK, but my family and others would rather lose free bus passes, free prescriptions and barnett advantages than lose our place in Britain.
Believe me there were many of us looking to move to England in the event of a YES outcome in 2014, (our family had priced property in York/Newcastle/Darlington), and we still would if the worst happens.
Personally I'm a Brit first and a Scot second.
Sturgeon doesn't speak for me or my 2 million countrymen.
Please can we all stick together AND work together to make a better UK.0 -
A query for information.
How should the overwhelming vote for the SNP be interpreted? It is something which is very puzzling. I'd everyone who votes for the SNP a separatist?
No there are unionists that vote SNP as well ... and there are indy people that don't vote snp so Nicola doesn't speak for them either ...0 -
In the last Scottish elections SNP won about 50% of the vote the other parties combined also 50% of the vote but split between Tory/Labour/ Libs so SNP accrued more seats.
I know this is a difficult thing maybe for non Scottish voters to get their heads round but a big chunk of SNP voters don't much care for Independance; they think Sturgeon and co run a reasonable, conservative with a small c administration.
Most Scots cringe when she and others moan on about how hard done to scotland is by Westminster, (we are a well educated country, this is not a difficult transparency to see through).
The danger now of course is that due to the lack of any appetite within Scotland for a 2nd referendum the SNP are deliberately adopting a strategy to isolate ourselves from yourselves to foster a "just let them go" attitude which I hope non Scots can see through and reject.
Yes, we get a great deal out of being in the UK, but my family and others would rather lose free bus passes, free prescriptions and barnett advantages than lose our place in Britain.
Believe me there were many of us looking to move to England in the event of a YES outcome in 2014, (our family had priced property in York/Newcastle/Darlington), and we still would if the worst happens.
Personally I'm a Brit first and a Scot second.
Sturgeon doesn't speak for me or my 2 million countrymen.
Please can we all stick together AND work together to make a better UK.
I almost shed a tear when I read this.
I'm British first and English second. Thank god there are people up there who haven't bought into this SNP agenda.
The SNP are turning the nations of the union against each other.0 -
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