Harder now for 1st time buyers?

littlegreenfrog_2

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

That depends on what your outlook is. For me, being mortgage free affords me the ability to do what I want and when I want - all without the continual worry of redundancy forcing me into bankruptcy. I did have the £120k/year job in banking back in 1997 for 4 years and knew even then I did not want to keep that up, so I saved feverishy, sold my house in Berkshire, and downsized to the coast.

I do not have any issue with taking on a NMW job now - no mortgage, anything I earn I put towards my passion as a musician - no other distractions.

But if what motivates you is continual learning and wage improvement just to maintain a high value mortgaged home in an area where descent in bankruptcy is swift when redundancy crystallises then good luck. I just do not see any advantage in staying in a town where house prices are crippling and one is staying afloat - just.

And in an altruistic swipe to suggest that you justify this by paying more tax than Tesco workers and also that it isn't a good use of your time smacks of snobbery at its finest.

Nonsense. As a higher rate taxpayer I contribute more to the economy than I would if I worked in Tesco. If I worked in Tesco in Port Talbot I would contribute considerably less tax revenue and there might be someone in Port Talbot on the dole who could otherwise have that job in Tesco. There is nothing altruistic or sensible about moving to an area with high unemployment, taking a job you are vastly overqualified for and wasting the money the taxpayer spent on your education. Not to mention the fact that I still owe the student loans company £5,000 which I am expecting to pay off in the next two years, but if I jacked it all in and went off to do a minimum wage job for the rest of my life I would never pay it off and the taxpayer would end up footing the bill.

always_sunny

Reading these responses I am not sure the problem is just with real estate.

Realistically, what's the short term solution beside venting on forums? Are these property prices going to crumble overnight? They might (no one knows) but highly improbable.

If you are priced out for houses why not get a flat? Someone was asking whether the current system was fair or sustainable.

Is it fair and sustainable that everyone wants to live in a house when the population is growing?

greensalad

always_sunny wrote: »

Reading these responses I am not sure the problem is just with real estate.

Realistically, what's the short term solution beside venting on forums? Are these property prices going to crumble overnight? They might (no one knows) but highly improbable.

If you are priced out for houses why not get a flat? Someone was asking whether the current system was fair or sustainable.

Is it fair and sustainable that everyone wants to live in a house when the population is growing?

I think you're missing the point. Most people aren't arguing that they want some fancy big house with a drive and a lovely garden.

They want a home where they can raise a family. Flats that are decent enough in size to do so are still out of price ranges for most younger people. If the market wasn't so skewed towards BTL, second (or third, fourth, fifth) property owners then we may well not be having this conversation.

At it's most basic, young people want a place to live and older people want to squeeze every penny they can out of them to add to their asset pile.

I see this playing out regularly, both here and in my personal life. Mid 50s aged person, has a mortgage, has a nice car, has a good job, has a healthy pension, goes on two holidays a year, enough cash in the bank to pay the bills and buy nice food, nice clothes, indulges in their hobbies. Sounds like a dream. But wait, they have *too much* money just lying about. What should they do with it? Donate it to a good cause? Help their children out? Boost their pension? No, they need MORE. They need to buy property, because that means MORE MONEY now from renting and MORE MONEY when they decide to sell. The cycle continues, they make more money so they have more just lying around. They say "I better buy another house!". It's materialism at it's peak - the desperate climb for more-more-more.

Why do it? Isn't there a point in your life where you have ENOUGH cash?

On the other end there are the young, "lazy", "materialistic" people who are trying to pay off student debts they didn't vote for and save for a place to live in comfort where they don't fear moving every year. They want a home, they aren't on a quest for capital gain, they just want a bit of stability.

makeyourdaddyproud

This:-

I wouldn't begrudge someone else their fortune, but when your friend who earns £25k goes out to work in the morning and by the time they come home at the end of the day their flat has made more money than they have, whereas you earn £50k but by the time you've paid your rent and bills the amount you have left doesn't seem to be getting you any closer to home ownership, you really do have to wonder what the point of it all is.

... and this:

littlegreenfrog wrote: »

... There is nothing altruistic or sensible about moving to an area with high unemployment, taking a job you are vastly overqualified for and wasting the money the taxpayer spent on your education. Not to mention the fact that I still owe the student loans company £5,000 which I am expecting to pay off in the next two years, but if I jacked it all in and went off to do a minimum wage job for the rest of my life I would never pay it off and the taxpayer would end up footing the bill.

You might want to polarise your viewpoint a little better...

makeyourdaddyproud

always_sunny wrote: »

...Is it fair and sustainable that everyone wants to live in a house when the population is growing?

Probably not, but that is where ever higher house prices come in. High prices temper people ability to expand and consume.

ukcarper

ringo_24601 wrote: »

It's only affordable if you've saved £30k+ ... but at 32/35 they've had the time to do this.

The real trick was to attempt to get on the house market 10 years prior to now...

The house I bought in the early 70s was 3.5x our joint earnings and we had to save a 10% deposit. Mind you we were earning about half the equivelent of £100k but we still had to move to the Surrey/Hants borders.

littlegreenfrog_2

makeyourdaddyproud wrote: »

This:-



... and this:



You might want to polarise your viewpoint a little better...

On the contrary.

My view has always been that it is my responsibility to work hard, get a good education, get a decent job and become financially independent. I'm young, well-educated, employable and have had many opportunities in life that others have not. I owe it to society to contribute more than I take out.

In return, I expect to be able to have a reasonable standard of living. I expect to be able to afford to buy my own property. (Ok, maybe not a house to begin with, but a two bedroom flat would be nice.) I do not expect to be screwed over by people who had a free education, bought property when it was cheap and are now abusing their good fortune by investing in property at the expense of people like me. I do not expect to be working my butt off to fund the retirement of people who are much wealthier than me, through luck rather than hard work.

As far as I'm concerned, I am keeping up my end of the bargain and not getting a whole lot back in return. Which is why many people in my position are wondering why they bother.

always_sunny

greensalad wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Most people aren't arguing that they want some fancy big house with a drive and a lovely garden.

They want a home where they can raise a family. Flats that are decent enough in size to do so are still out of price ranges for most younger people. If the market wasn't so skewed towards BTL, second (or third, fourth, fifth) property owners then we may well not be having this conversation.

At it's most basic, young people want a place to live and older people want to squeeze every penny they can out of them to add to their asset pile.

There is no winning. Whichever angle this is tackled it's still not fine.

What is a decent size? I live in a 2 bed apartment which is 60 sqm and you could raise a family.
I was raised in a flat of similar size (most EU capital city dwellers live in small flats),
My neighbour is raising his family on the flat below me.

How much do you think (or feel) a flat should cost to be fair?

looknohands

always_sunny wrote: »

So like someone else asked before, why stay in London if it is so difficult?

Isn't that the point, the comment was from a doctor who can't afford to liver there. If one doctor is finding it hard to live somewhere that means most of them will also find it hard.

I guess if you don't care about public healthcare you could just argue that London will survive on private healthcare, close the NHS hospitals... wouldn't want poor people to be encouraged to live there :rotfl:

looknohands

littlegreenfrog wrote: »

Nonsense. As a higher rate taxpayer I contribute more to the economy than I would if I worked in Tesco.

A Tesco worker is making Tesco's a lot more money than he/she is worth which is profit Tesco pay tax on, Tesco also have loads of suppliers in the UK all of which pay tax, so the Tesco worker is a link in this whole chain of business that is the UK economy. Also how does the Tesco worker spend his / her money? it might all go back into the UK economy, maybe the lower wages force Tesco workers into taking a staycation?

Me... all of my clients in 2014 were overseas, I paid £14,000 income tax that year some at higher rate like you, However i feel I'm nowhere near as valuable to the economy as someone working at Tesco. None of my clients paid any tax in this country and none of the things I made for them benefited any other part of the economy in this country, essentially nothing I did except paying tax helped anything to do with this countries economy.

Add to that I grow a lot of my own food and I traveled abroad a lot, so I spent most of my income in other countries.

Income tax is not a measure of your economic contribution!