Buying at a trade show?

Surfer

If you go to a trade show which is held twice a year each time for 6 days and place a deposit on a large item like a car or caravan with a delivery date a few months in the future and then later change your mind, i.e. the next day and you contact the dealer, can they refuse the refund of your deposit as the stand at the trade fair was an extension of the business and distance selling regulations apparently do not apply.
I am struggling to find any defintion of trade fairs in the CRA and whether trade fairs are covered under DSR or not. Can anyone advise and point toards the relevant legislation. Thanks.

pinkshoes

I'm quite sure it is not distance selling, so no cooling off period.

You would be bound by their own cancellation T&Cs.

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

If you go to a trade show which is held twice a year each time for 6 days and place a deposit on a large item like a car or caravan with a delivery date a few months in the future and then later change your mind, i.e. the next day and you contact the dealer, can they refuse the refund of your deposit as the stand at the trade fair was an extension of the business and distance selling regulations apparently do not apply.
I am struggling to find any defintion of trade fairs in the CRA and whether trade fairs are covered under DSR or not. Can anyone advise and point toards the relevant legislation. Thanks.

It is certainly not a distance contract as both the trader and consumer discussed things face to face.

Distance Selling Regulations were replace in June 2014 by The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

Regulation 5 defines “distance contract” and “off-premises contract”. I'll leave you to work out whether a contract concluded at a 'trade fair' is an off-premises contract.

Anyway, putting that to one side, you can cancel the contract.
You do have an obligation to cover the costs incurred by the seller, which may mean they can keep all or part of your deposit. It could also mean that you owe more money if their costs exceed the deposit you have already paid.

This post may help:

Is a deposit ever refundable?

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Surfer

Thanks for the above but if buying at a trade fair and the supplier is working on the manufacturer's stand and the stand only operates twice a year for 6 days each time, can the stand be deemed as an extension of the business (supplier) premises. It seems a grey area.
In addition, if the goods have not been assembled and will not be assembled for 4 - 5 months and the consumer cancels within 48 hours of agreeing to the purchase I am nt sure how the dealer can suffer a loss.
The definition of trade shows and off premises is rather vague and probably needs a test case to clarify. In this instance the person, not us, paid a £2000 deposit on a caravan they liked. However they then found out that the dealership has a very bad reputation plus there is an inherent fault with the caravan which has not been rectified on the current model.

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

Thanks for the above but if buying at a trade fair and the supplier is working on the manufacturer's stand and the stand only operates twice a year for 6 days each time, can the stand be deemed as an extension of the business (supplier) premises. It seems a grey area.
In addition, if the goods have not been assembled and will not be assembled for 4 - 5 months and the consumer cancels within 48 hours of agreeing to the purchase I am nt sure how the dealer can suffer a loss.
The definition of trade shows and off premises is rather vague and probably needs a test case to clarify. In this instance the person, not us, paid a £2000 deposit on a caravan they liked. However they then found out that the dealership has a very bad reputation plus there is an inherent fault with the caravan which has not been rectified on the current model.

Presumably the seller had to pay to be present at this 'trade show'.
Therefore a proportion of that fee can be attributed to your friend's sale. These's a loss for starters.
Advertising the caravan again, arranging more viewings, newspaper ads, etc. are all costs that would not be necessary if your friend continued with the sale.

The time to decide whether the seller 'has a very bad reputation' or not is before the sale.
Likewise with any inherent fault that cannot be tolerated.

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like buyer's remorse to me.

Where and what was this 'trade show'?

Surfer

wealdroam wrote: »

Presumably the seller had to pay to be present at this 'trade show'.
Therefore a proportion of that fee can be attributed to your friend's sale. These's a loss for starters.
Advertising the caravan again, arranging more viewings, newspaper ads, etc. are all costs that would not be necessary if your friend continued with the sale.

The time to decide whether the seller 'has a very bad reputation' or not is before the sale.
Likewise with any inherent fault that cannot be tolerated.

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like buyer's remorse to me.

Where and what was this 'trade show'?

The show was the NEC Camping and Caravan show last week. Caravan has not been built and is only a number on a piece of paper and it will not be built until June 2016. The consumer had to pay to enter the show. There would be no costs involved if the deal was cancelled.
I am aware of the dealership in question and the dealership does have a very dubious reputation and is mentioned on numerous caravan forums and generally shown in a bad light.
This is the first new caravan that the person has bought and they are nto seasoned caravanners. I agree it could be buyer's remorse, but probably due to the dealership and not the actual caravan. There is a remedy for the "inherent" fault which is a genuine problem, but sadly the manufacturer only takes action once the fault occurs.
Maybe their best bet is to go ahead with the purchase and then reject the caravan within the first thirty days?

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

Maybe their best bet is to go ahead with the purchase and then reject the caravan within the first thirty days?

Do you realise that in order to reject during the first thirty days the buyer may well be asked to prove that the van is inherently faulty?


Here is just one discussion on whether a stand at an exhibition is "the trader's business premises":

The effect of the CCR's on trade stands at a fair or exhibition is not entirely clear. The distinction between ‘on’ and ‘off’ premises turns on whether the contract is formed in a place that is “not the business premises of the trader”. By the CCR's definition of ‘business premises’, this can be either the immovable and permanent premises of a business (e.g. a shop) or the “moveable retail premises where the [business] activity is carried out on a usual basis”. The interesting words are ‘usual basis’ as opposed to for example, ‘ordinary course of business’ or ‘regular basis’. ‘Usual’ is subjective i.e. for how many years would the exhibitor of a product falling within the regulations, need to have a trade stand at an annual exhibition, for that stand to be considered a moveable retail premises operating on a usual basis? The product being sold may also be a factor in determining whether the trade stand was operating on a ‘usual basis’. For example, an off premises contract may exist where an exhibitor has retailed goods or services for 5 years at an annual exhibition directly related to that retailers business sector; but may not exist for a business trying to sell entirely unrelated goods at the same event purely as a marketing experiment.

unholyangel

wealdroam wrote: »

Presumably the seller had to pay to be present at this 'trade show'.
Therefore a proportion of that fee can be attributed to your friend's sale. These's a loss for starters.
Advertising the caravan again, arranging more viewings, newspaper ads, etc. are all costs that would not be necessary if your friend continued with the sale.

The time to decide whether the seller 'has a very bad reputation' or not is before the sale.
Likewise with any inherent fault that cannot be tolerated.

Sorry to say this, but it sounds like buyer's remorse to me.

Where and what was this 'trade show'?

Agree with the rest but I'm nitpicking the bit in bold - thats a cost the trader would have incurred whether the contract had been entered into/breached or not - so cannot be a loss attributed to wrongful cancellation.

These solicitors make a good point though:
http://www.geppandsons.co.uk/news/what-businesses-need-to-know-under-the-new-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-charges-regulations-2013

The regulations say business premises are also:
(b)any movable retail premises where the activity of the trader is carried out on a usual basis;

Given the usage of the word usual rather than regular, I'd be inclined to say that the law intends market stalls to be on-premises but trade shows (at least in the circumstances OP describes) are off-premises.

wealdroam

unholyangel wrote: »

Agree with the rest but I'm nitpicking the bit in bold - thats a cost the trader would have incurred whether the contract had been entered into/breached or not - so cannot be a loss attributed to wrongful cancellation.

OK, I'll give you that.

unholyangel wrote: »

These solicitors make a good point though:
http://www.geppandsons.co.uk/news/what-businesses-need-to-know-under-the-new-consumer-contracts-information-cancellation-and-additional-charges-regulations-2013

The regulations say business premises are also:
(b)any movable retail premises where the activity of the trader is carried out on a usual basis;

Given the usage of the word usual rather than regular, I'd be inclined to say that the law intends market stalls to be on-premises but trade shows (at least in the circumstances OP describes) are off-premises.

Yes, I gave the same link and quoted from it in my later post.

unholyangel

wealdroam wrote: »

OK, I'll give you that.


Yes, I gave the same link and quoted from it in my later post.

!!!!!!, thought the page sounded familiar when I read it :rotfl:

bris

Trade shows are considered as a retailers place of business so not a distance sale.


It's also a solicited sale where the customer comes to the retailer, so again CCR's don't apply.


There are 2 aceptions when it comes to trade shows where they do apply. If the retailer invites the customer and trade show employees, not other retailers but people who work for the trade show.

The trader is entitled to loss of profit so cancelling isn't going to be cheap. Same rules apply to any broken contract.

There is case law on trade show rights, google and you will find them.