Buying at a trade show?

Surfer

wealdroam wrote: »

Do you realise that in order to reject during the first thirty days the buyer may well be asked to prove that the van is inherently faulty?


Here is just one discussion on whether a stand at an exhibition is "the trader's business premises":

The manufacturer is using ABS instead of GRP panels on the rear of the van. When ABS is used where the panel is moulded to form a corner or bend, the panel becomes thinner and this is causing the cracks after several or more months usage. Generally the fault shows up after about 18 months of normal usage which is a couple of weekends a year and a holiday. Sooner if the van is used on a regular basis. The manufacturer then does a workaround and fits caps over the corners.
The manufacturer offers a 10 year warranty against water ingress and one assumes this covers the panels, however if you read the owner's handbook after purchase, the panels are only warranted for 1 year so this alone is enough for rejection due to Unfair term due to misrepresentation. I appreciate that the onus is still on the dealership to rectify the issue.
However I am still trying established the status or definition of the legalities when siging a contract at a trade show for a future delivery date. If anyone can supply a link to the actual regulations governing trade shows I would be grateful plus of course their comments on the actual regulations.

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

The manufacturer is using ABS instead of GRP panels on the rear of the van. When ABS is used where the panel is moulded to form a corner or bend, the panel becomes thinner and this is causing the cracks after several or more months usage. Generally the fault shows up after about 18 months of normal usage which is a couple of weekends a year and a holiday. Sooner if the van is used on a regular basis. The manufacturer then does a workaround and fits caps over the corners.
The manufacturer offers a 10 year warranty against water ingress and one assumes this covers the panels, however if you read the owner's handbook after purchase, the panels are only warranted for 1 year so this alone is enough for rejection due to Unfair term due to misrepresentation. I appreciate that the onus is still on the dealership to rectify the issue.

All very interesting, but you don't have to convince anyone on this forum.

Surfer wrote: »

However I am still trying established the status or definition of the legalities when siging a contract at a trade show for a future delivery date. If anyone can supply a link to the actual regulations governing trade shows I would be grateful plus of course their comments on the actual regulations.

Not sure what you mean by 'the actual regulations'.

Post#3 should've helped.

In my earlier post, post#7, and that of unholyangel, you saw one solicitor's view on the vagueness of the legislation.

In Bris's post you read his interpretation.

These are only opinions. If you want a legal opinion, apart from the one you already have from post#7, then you need to speak to a solicitor.

Surfer

Thanks for all the useful advice above and have taken it into consideration. What I meant was that a link to actual legislation governing trade show sales would be helpful i.e. gove.uk link.
However I think I have found a "get out" clause for the buyer. The fact that all the literature states 10 year warranty against water ingress which one then assumes to cover the ouside panels however in the owner's manual it states that the body panel only have a 1 year warranty so maybe a case of misrepresentation inducing the consumer to conclude a contract. Best is for them to visit a CAB or a solicitor.

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

What I meant was that a link to actual legislation governing trade show sales would be helpful i.e. gove.uk link.

Is there anything specific for a 'trade show'?
I'm not sure there is.

Surfer

wealdroam wrote: »

Is there anything specific for a 'trade show'?
I'm not sure there is.

I have checked both CRA and Consumer Contracts and can find no mention regarding Trade Shows in the legislation so not sure where this is being plucked from by Solihull council and the NEC in addition to the dealership?
Last year when we had second thoughts (buyers remorse) the dealer who has a reputable reputation offered us a full refund, however we decided we had made the right decision and went ahead with the purchase.

wealdroam

Surfer wrote: »

I have checked both CRA and Consumer Contracts and can find no mention regarding Trade Shows in the legislation so not sure where this is being plucked from by Solihull council and the NEC in addition to the dealership?

What? This is the first time you have mentioned Solihull council.

I can only guess that they have interpreted the legislation, that has been mentioned above, in a different way.
Lawyers make their living interpreting legislation and convincing others they are right.

Surfer wrote: »

Last year when we had second thoughts (buyers remorse) the dealer who has a reputable reputation offered us a full refund, however we decided we had made the right decision and went ahead with the purchase.

Of course any trader can offer a goodwill gesture over and above that which any legislation requires.

unholyangel

bris wrote: »

Trade shows are considered as a retailers place of business so not a distance sale.


It's also a solicited sale where the customer comes to the retailer, so again CCR's don't apply.


There are 2 aceptions when it comes to trade shows where they do apply. If the retailer invites the customer and trade show employees, not other retailers but people who work for the trade show.

The trader is entitled to loss of profit so cancelling isn't going to be cheap. Same rules apply to any broken contract.

There is case law on trade show rights, google and you will find them.

The old doorstep regulations didn't apply (clue was really in the name - cancellation of contracts made in a consumers home or place of work regulations), but those have since been replaced with the CCRs and as far as I'm aware, there is no case law yet on the new regulations about trade shows (but I did have a look for the old regulations case law and google couldn't find any).

CCRs apply to all sales - but which sections apply depend on what type of contract it is and they also apply to both solicited and unsolicited sales.

mo786uk

Surfer wrote: »

If you go to a trade show which is held twice a year each time for 6 days and place a deposit on a large item like a car or caravan with a delivery date a few months in the future and then later change your mind, i.e. the next day and you contact the dealer, can they refuse the refund of your deposit as the stand at the trade fair was an extension of the business and distance selling regulations apparently do not apply.
I am struggling to find any defintion of trade fairs in the CRA and whether trade fairs are covered under DSR or not. Can anyone advise and point toards the relevant legislation. Thanks.

Under the CCR the contract would be classed as ON PREMSIES - therefore the 14 days cooling off period does not apply. The reason is that the stall is a usual place of business of the tarder.

One thing to consider is that the udnerlying EU legislation aism to protect consuemrs fro mscenarios where they may not expect to be sold to - for exmaple, in their home or on the street - when you go to a tarde show you go expecting to buy like you would in a normal shop - so no cooling off period.

That said, under normal contract law you can just breach the contract and cancel - you would be liable for any provable losses and basically just come back to the question of whether a tarder can retain a deposit.

the CMA put out some guidance yesterday for wedding venues which may help as it covers similar issues.

apologies for spelling, in a rush!

unholyangel

Couldn't find anything from the UK for it so expanded my search to the EU and found this:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/consumer-marketing/files/crd_guidance_en.pdf

Which states:

Recital 22 explains: 'Business premises should include premises in whatever form (such as
shops, stalls or lorries) which serve as a permanent or usual place of business for the trader.
Market stalls and fair stands should be treated as business premises if they fulfill this
condition.

As explained in recital 22, 'business premises' means the trade's permanent or usual place of
business in whatever form, including when used on a seasonal basis:
 For example, contracts concluded with a trader at a market fair, which takes
place regularly and lasts over a specified period of time, are likely to be onpremises
contracts.

In contrast, if the trader uses spaces accessible to the public, such as streets, shopping malls,
beaches, sports facilities and public transport on an exceptional basis, i.e., once or
occasionally and for a short duration in a given location, the contracts concluded with
consumers are likely to be off-premises contracts.

Sounds like they can be on-premises or off-premises depending on the particulars. From what OP said, I'd be inclined to say theres little doubt OP's would be an off-premises contract.

Different if they perhaps only traded there 3 months out of the year. But twice a year...

Surfer

Thanks unholyangel as that is very helpful and as you point out twice a year each time for only 6 days indicates that is more than likely an off premises contract. which is why our dealer made the offer to us. Seems many dealers are not aware of this bit of legislation. It is obviously very difficult to find this legislation as it seems to be hidden away.