Trouble with letting agent - ending periodic tenancy

alisen

Hi,

I am having trouble dealing with my letting agent to end the periodic tenancy.

It's a joint periodic tenancy and landlord has given us 2 month notice. In return I have given him a valid one month Notice to Quit (served on the first day of period so expires on the next first day of period). The other tenant does not want to move out, but I did inform her that I will be giving my notice to quit as I have already moved out and clearly don't want to pay rent for the second month. After giving my notice I contacted the letting agent about this and after exchanging several emails I feel as if it's going nowhere.

The agent first told me that I can't give a Notice to Quit when landlord has already given us his. After telling the agent that this is not true I received another email saying that I can't give a notice individually as notice has to be joint and severally served. Obviously this is not true as this is a periodic tenancy. I emailed the agent back explaining this and asking to let me know the details for arranging the check out. Next I received an email saying that check out can't be booked until both tenants are able to vacate the property. Therefore we will both be joint and severally liable for the rent until we both can move out. Once again I had to explain the agent that this is not true as my Notice to Quit ends the tenancy and if the other tenant remains at the property after the end date, then any consequences do not apply to me.

Unfortunately the agent still doesn't agree with this as I have received another email:

"To end a joint and several tenancy both tenants have to have vacated the property, until this takes place the tenancy will not have ended, therefore you would still be liable to pay rent on the property until you both vacate.

A notice to quit is also joint and several and so the above applies to both parties in this case.

A check out can only take place once the property has been vacated by both parties. A deposit will only be returned after this occurs. At this point the 10 days for the deposit return will commence."

I would appreciate if you could give me advise on what to do next as I feel like the agent doesn't undestand or doesn't know what periodic tenancy is.

Thank you,
Alise

G_M

alisen wrote: »

It's a joint periodic tenancy and landlord has given us 2 month notice.
S21 I assume?
In return I have given him a valid one month Notice to Quit (served on the first day of period so expires on the next first day of period).
OK
The other tenant does not want to move out,
Notice by 1 joint tenant applies to the tenancy as a whole, so binds all joint tenants
but I did inform her that I will be giving [STRIKE]my[/STRIKE]our notice to quit as I have already moved out and clearly don't want to pay rent for the second month. After giving my notice I contacted the letting agent about this
about what? You served notice. Why do you need to contact the agent other than to arrange keys.
and after exchanging several emails I feel as if it's going nowhere.

The agent first told me that I can't give a Notice to Quit when landlord has already given us his.
Rubbish
After telling the agent that this is not true I received another email saying that I can't give a notice individually as notice has to be joint and severally served.
Rubbish
Obviously this is not true as this is a periodic tenancy. I emailed the agent back explaining this and asking to let me know the details for arranging the check out.
Correct. Good
Next I received an email saying that check out can't be booked until both tenants are able to vacate the property.
That seems fair/sensible
Therefore we will both be joint and severally liable for the rent until we both can move out.
correct. And beware. If you don't both move out, not only are you both still liable but you can be charged double rent.
Once again I had to explain the agent that this is not true as my Notice to Quit ends the tenancy and if the other tenant remains at the property after the end date, then any consequences do not apply to me.
Sadly not true. The contract is between 'The Landlord' and 'The Tenant'. Note that 'The Tenant' is a single legal entity. The fact that it comprises two individuals does not alter that.

so if 'The Tenant' does not vacate in accordance with the notice served, then 'The Tenant' remains liable.
Unfortunately the agent still doesn't agree with this as I have received another email:

"To end a joint and several tenancy both tenants have to have vacated the property, until this takes place the tenancy will not have ended, therefore you would still be liable to pay rent on the property until you both vacate.
Correct. Except that (luckily for you) they have not mentioned double rent.

A notice to quit is also joint and several and so the above applies to both parties in this case.
Correct
A check out can only take place once the property has been vacated by both parties.Correct A deposit will only be returned after this occurs. At this point the 10 days for the deposit return will commence."Correct

I would appreciate if you could give me advise on what to do next as I feel like the agent doesn't undestand or doesn't know what periodic tenancy is.

Thank you,
Alise

You need to start talking seriously to your joint tenant!

Distress For Rent Act 1747 S18 (Double rent if tenant fails to leave after giving notice) explanation

Miss_Samantha

"To end a joint and several tenancy both tenants have to have vacated the property, until this takes place the tenancy will not have ended, therefore you would still be liable to pay rent on the property until you both vacate."

This is incorrect, whether the tenancy ends is one thing, whether you both vacate is quite another.

theartfullodger

Alise: is this Scotland?

In Scotland all joint tenants must give notice....

alisen

This is in London.

Guest101

alisen wrote: »

This is in London.

As has been pointed out you are each, jointly, liable for double rent if you both fail to vacate at the end of your, not the landlords, notice

alisen

I am a bit confused.. If the notice to quit ends the tenancy, then why am I still jointly responsible if the other person remains at the property after the end of the tenancy? Doesn't the joint and several liability end with the end of the tenancy and after that the person who doesn't move out is tresspasing?

mrginge

Miss_Samantha wrote: »

"To end a joint and several tenancy both tenants have to have vacated the property, until this takes place the tenancy will not have ended, therefore you would still be liable to pay rent on the property until you both vacate."

This is incorrect, whether the tenancy ends is one thing, whether you both vacate is quite another.

OP can always just arrange a check out, since that ends the tenancy.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

Pixie5740

alisen wrote: »

I am a bit confused.. If the notice to quit ends the tenancy, then why am I still jointly responsible if the other person remains at the property after the end of the tenancy? Doesn't the joint and several liability end with the end of the tenancy and after that the person who doesn't move out is tresspasing?

Because you and the other person living there are joint tenants, one entity, THE tenant so to speak. It only takes one of you to serve notice but you must both move out otherwise your joint and several liability will remain.

If the other joint tenant wishes to remain in the property they could either sign a new tenancy in their own name only. Alternatively they could find a new joint tenant to live with and providing this new person passes referencing sign a new joint tenancy between them.

alisen

Thank you all for your help!

I have talked to the other tenant this morning and told her about the possibility of landlord asking for a double rent if we both don't vacate the property until the end of the tenancy. She wasn't aware of this and told me that she is trying to come to an agreement with landlord that she can stay at the property for one more month and pay her share of rent. If landlord doesn't agree then she will move out.

I am now wondering what would happen with the deposit in each situation (deposit has been protected, she is the lead tenant):

1) We both vacate the property before the end of the tenancy;
2) She signs a new agreement with landlord and remains at the property after the end of the tenancy;
3) She doesn't sign a new agreement and doesn't vacate the property;

Also I am considering to make a complaint about the false information the agent has told us. They have the complaint procedure explained on their website. Do you think I should do that or is it a waste of my time?

Pixie5740

alisen wrote: »

I am now wondering what would happen with the deposit in each situation (deposit has been protected, she is the lead tenant):

1) We both vacate the property before the end of the tenancy;
2) She signs a new agreement with landlord and remains at the property after the end of the tenancy;
3) She doesn't sign a new agreement and doesn't vacate the property;

1) The deposit is returned (often to the lead tenant) minus any reasonable reductions (could be zero)

2) Deposit should be returned and a new deposit registered for the new tenancy.

3) The landlord probably won't agree to return the deposit until you're both gone.

alisen wrote: »

Also I am considering to make a complaint about the false information the agent has told us. They have the complaint procedure explained on their website. Do you think I should do that or is it a waste of my time?

I see no harm in highlighting some training requirements although you might want to wait until the other joint tenant has sorted out whatever it is she is going to do before poking the angry bear.