eBay seller sold faulty goods - refused refund

naedanger

marliepanda wrote: »

I agree that's it's potentially confusing but as you said I'd have definitely asked questions especially when it was sold as spares or repair. Why would anyone sell anything that worked for spares or repair? No one would pay a good price for a spares or repair item.

It was not just potentially confusing it was actually misleading. It said that the reason the model plane was being sold for repair or spares was because it had not been used for six months whereas the real reason was because it had been in an accident.

The amount of work needed to bring an unused item up to working order is completely different to the amount of work (and cost) needed to restore a damaged item.

How you and others can defend the description given, based on its entirety, as being fair or reasonable is beyond me.

LandOfConfusion

Sleazy wrote: »

However, to be fair the OP should probably have asked more questions

Lesson learned.

naedanger wrote: »

It was not just potentially confusing it was actually misleading. It said that the reason the model plane was being sold for repair or spares was because it had not been used for six months whereas the real reason was because it had been in an accident.

Absolutely. He also listed the item in the "Used" category and during the listing process would have been shown the following text describing what that meant:

An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or an item that has been returned to the seller after a period of use. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

(my emphasis).

Now from my view I'm being offered a plane, which I'm told was stored working. The important bits (plane, transmitter) are not perishable but conceivably the batteries might be heavily used / deeply discharged in storage. All that's fine as they're cheap to replace (~£5 ea.) and in any case he's claiming that the important parts are all working.

Now I assumed that his statements about the plane's condition were true and I was prepared to accept some use-related damage but to list a write-off, in the "Used" as opposed to "Spares and Repairs" category and to include a statement that the plane was stored in a fit state to fly when he knew it wasn't is in my view deceptive.

But yes, I was an idiot for not asking questions and being too trusting with a seller who was claiming fitness only to then straight after try to cover his rear with a loose disclaimer. I'm not going to make that mistake again.

naedanger

LandOfConfusion wrote: »

Absolutely. He also listed the item in the "Used" category and during the listing process would have been shown the following text describing what that meant:

"An item that has been previously used. The item may have some signs of cosmetic wear, but is fully operational and functions as intended. This item may be a floor model or an item that has been returned to the seller after a period of use. See the seller’s listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

Now from my view I'm being offered a plane, which I'm told was stored working. The important bits (plane, transmitter) are not perishable but conceivably the batteries might be heavily used / deeply discharged in storage. All that's fine as they're cheap to replace (~£5 ea.) and in any case he's claiming that the important parts are all working.

Now I assumed that his statements about the plane's condition were true and I was prepared to accept some use-related damage but to list a write-off, in the "Used" as opposed to "Spares and Repairs" category and to include a statement that the plane was stored in a fit state to fly when he knew it wasn't is in my view deceptive.

Given the text you quoted I would fully expect ebay to side with you and give a full refund including all postage (assuming the seller does not dispute the model's actual current condition). [Though I don't know ebay's terms and conditions.]

But yes, I was an idiot for not asking questions and being too trusting with a seller who was claiming fitness only to then straight after try to cover his rear with a loose disclaimer. I'm not going to make that mistake again.

In a way you were not wrong. If the seller had given a fair description there was no need to ask further questions. You were rightly expecting the work needed to be that required to restore a model that had been unused for some time (but was otherwise in flying condition) back to flying condition. I don't know about models but probably work along the lines of checking/replacing batteries, oiling/flexing/testing moving surfaces, oiling testing motors etc, repositioning aerials, and full testing on the ground etc.

However in practice I suspect quite a few disreputable people will wrongly think they can use words "for spares/repairs" to excuse false/misleading information given elsewhere. So in practice, as another poster suggested, when such phrases appear it is probably best checking further (although in theory this should not be necessary as descriptions should be fair).

Concerned75

Long and short of it is, people on Ebay are devious. If you buy something of a specialist nature, make sure you ask specific questions that a legit person should answer and weigh up the cost to you or the loss if the item is duff. If this is the greater equation, buy from elsewhere reputable.

zenmaster

What bit of "spares" or "repairs" are you finding hard to understand?

naedanger

zenmaster wrote: »

What bit of "spares" or "repairs" are you finding hard to understand?

If you read the whole thread you would (or at least should) realise you have missed the point.

theonlywayisup

LandOfConfusion wrote: »

I've opened a case with eBay and been in contact with the seller and he's gave me two choices:

1. I can keep the plane and a derisory part-refund or
2. I can return the plane at my expense and he'll refund the auction amount only (not postage either way).

This would be better on the eBay board because you have a case open.

The most important question is -what was the reason you selected - in opening the case? This determines what happens next.

Answer that and there will be a definitive answer for you.

soolin

theonlywayisup wrote: »

This would be better on the eBay board because you have a case open.

The most important question is -what was the reason you selected - in opening the case? This determines what happens next.

Answer that and there will be a definitive answer for you.

Theonlywayisup is correct, to really advise on this we need to know exactly what sort of case you opened. A straight return request will mean seller can decline both the return and refund, a SNAD claim will go via ebay to decide. A SNAD claim is usually more in favour of the buyer , it is rare for a seller to win, however depending on where the words 'spares and repairs' were showing will make a difference. If it is in item specifics then you will probably lose, if in item description only then you may well win. If you win a SNAD claim then seller will be responsible for your return costs and will also have to refund you in full , including original postage, when the item is received back.

George_Michael

zenmaster wrote: »

What bit of "spares" or "repairs" are you finding hard to understand?

Probably the same bit of "flys well" that you don't seem to understand.

bod1467

zenmaster wrote: »

What bit of "spares" or "repairs" are you finding hard to understand?

The bit where the seller has used it in the same way a car dealer might use "Sold as seen" ... to try and get around their legal obligations by throwing up a smoke screen.