Legion Hull Royal, Now at Debt collectors stage and need advice to proceed.

Tony1987_2

So, my partner picked up 2 parking tickets from Hull royal infirmary. One was from 16/11/15 and the other was from 18/12/2015. He works as a research nurse there. He has a staff permit, but on each occasion was forced to park in the patients bit, couldn't get a ticket because of a faulty machine, and rather than messing around running for another machine had to rush into help a patient. He was advised to ignore the letters that came through, incorrectly, so im now picking them up to try and sort this. We started receiving the standard debt collectors letters from DR+ for one of them, and have just got a final warning from legion for another one. I think however, when sorting this out we read the wrong things in the incorrect way.

I know i have given away who the driver was at the time of the ticket, but I was following the information on MSE, and not from the forums at the time. This is what we put:

"Parking Services
Suite 1A, Waterside Drive
Metro Centre Business Park
Gateshead
NE119HU

Dear Sir or Madam,

Ticket number:
Vehicle registration number: Reg

You issued me with a parking ticket on 18/12/2015 (ref) and 16/11/2015 (ref) but I believe it was unfairly issued. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

• Mitigating circumstances
There are mitigating circumstances to explain why I parked where I did and I am requesting that the charge be waived for this reason. I work as a research nurse specialist in Hull Royal infirmary, and was asked on both days to urgently attend an exceptionally unwell patient. While I normally park in staff parking on the opposite side of the hospital, due to the urgency of the call I parked close to the unit. I tried to pay for parking, but as is often the case with the machine around the car park, it wasn’t working, and I did want to waste more time trying to find another machine. I expected to not be long with the patient so ran in. Unfortunately, I was longer than expected and so ended up receiving this notice.


The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable
The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In my case, the two charges of £60 you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £1.50 per hours, therefore I would have had to have parked there for 80 hours for you to justify this charge. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive.

• I would have responded earlier to this request, but I don’t remember getting a parking notice on my car, even though you do state it in your letter. If I had known, I would have dealt with this when the alleged incident took place.
Not only that, but I have only recently received two letters from you. This is the reason I am now sending you this letter. One mentioning a failure to pay, which is from yourselves referring to reference ref, and another from Debt Recovery Plus (DRP) referencing ref. Reading the letter I can ascertain that the debt has not been sold to DRP, and are acting as an agent and they are merely trying scaremongering tactics with me since they are saying such things as “We will recommend to the creditor…”. I will not liaise with DRP at all on this matter.

I have supplied my ID badge to prove that I do indeed work at the hospital and the two letters that I have been sent.

Yours faithfully,"

And their response

"Thank you for your email – unfortunately we no longer hold this tickets – these were transferred to Debt Recovery Plus you will have to correspond directly with them.

PCN ref transferred to DR+ on the 17/01/2016 (Note this ticket was "transferred" before they sent out their "final warning")
PCN ref transferred to DR+ on the 14/01/2016

Kind Regards
Parking Appeals"

I have now read the newbies bit from beginning to end. I have since sent this to Legion

"Dear Sir

Ref :

I note the contents of your letter and your request that I deal with DR+

For your information, I have already contacted them and denied the existence of any debt
They have been told to refer the matter back to you and not contact me again

I will not respond to any communication from them again

There is nothing whatsoever to prevent your company from considering a challenge at any stage
Refusing access to your industry's alternative dispute resolution procedure would be unreasonable and a breach of the Civil Procedure Rules

It is well-established case law that, in the event of legal action, your company would be liable for the full costs of the claim regardless of outcome

As far as I am concerned, I have made a valid challenge 22/02/16 and the clock is running
If I do not receive a clear rejection along with a POPLA code within 35 days of the above date, I will regard the challenge as accepted and the matter closed

If DP+ are now dealing with the notice I suggest that you pass my challenge on and alert them to its urgency

Yours faithfully "

And they responded with

"Thank you for your email – we have now forwarded this onto DR+ . as we have already explained to you regarding these 2 PCN’s we no longer hold these tickets and you have to deal with DR+. We have not withdrawn these PCN’s from DR+


At no time did we received payment or an appeal for either of these tickets issued and letters have been sent regarding these. As no appeal or payment was made these have followed the process and are now with DR+ to collect monies


Kind Regards
Parking Appeals"

And this to DR+

"Dear Sirs

Parking Charge Number

I refer to your letter of 17/02/16, and earlier correspondence.

Firstly, I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client, and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

Second, should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, they must provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct:

Please also note that a failure and/or refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in a complaint being made to the court and an application for a stay of the action and costs pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 4 of the Practice Direction on non-compliance and sanctions.

In the meantime, you should note that this charge is disputed, and you must now refer this matter back to your client and cease and desist all further contact with me. Failure to do so will result in a complaint to the Credit Services Association.

I trust that I have made myself clear.
Yours faithfully"


Of course DR+ have sent the usual "We want lots of £149 or we will advise... yada yada yada"

Im now stuck, and im not sure where to go from here. They seem to be refusing a POPLA code (If that will help me). I have tried contacting the landowners about it, and im just writing a letter to the relevant person at the hospital explaining the problem.

Am i up a creek without a paddle now? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

(Be gentle)

Fruitcake

Ignore debt collectors. Post 4 of the NEWBIES thread tells you why it is safe to do so.

I've only skim read so I will have a more detailed look now, but did the PCNs come directly from the hospital or from a private parking company? This bit is important.


Did you get windscreen tickets or has anything come through the post to the keeper?


To whom were the letters sent, it isn't clear?


Were the letters sent by the keeper or the driver?


Please also read this and sign the petition.


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5365003

Tony1987_2

The PCNs have come from the PPC. (Legion in this case) I have a Notice to keeper dated the 17/12/15 about the one on the 16/11/15. It says "Dear *insert partners name*", and then says it is "addressed to the registered keeper of the vehicle". It says they left a ticket on the car, but he doesn't remember getting one for either of them.

The other says Final Warning dated 03/02/16, for a PCN issued 18/12/15. They both mention him by name.

Each of these correspondents so far have been sent through email if that helps.

*Petition Signed*

Redx

DR+ cannot and will not give you a popla code, so get that idea out of your head

you can ignore DRP/ZENITH, debt collectors have no powers and cannot do anything except send you postal demands , nothing else

LEGION could try court within 6 years of the "offences" occurring , as could the landowner

OCS Group (UK) Limited t/as Legion Group is your PPC, a BPA member

your best bet and currently only real option is to get the trust to cancel the charges, so have a go at them and use these recent guidelines as leverage

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

ps:- they do not have to put windscreen notices on the car , but if they dont then they have 14 days to send an NTK to the keeper , then the keeper had 28 days to appeal, but as you say that they say notices were left on the car, they had to issue the NTK between day 29 and day 56 after the incident, in order to comply with POFA2012

although I am not sure of your timeline, it appears that any appeal was too late and so you are now in the 6 years of hassle from the debt collectors scenario , hence trying to get the trust to cancel the charges

also read post #4 of the NEWBIES sticky thread, and please read this too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5035663

Quentin

Tony1987 wrote: »

Am i up a creek without a paddle now? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

(Be gentle)

Being gentle, there is a thread specially designed to advise over this issue:




https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5035663

Coupon-mad

Why in such a tizz over this letter chain we've laughed at and ignored for a decade? Certainly do not think of paying. It's not a fine.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5035663

Am i up a creek without a paddle now?

You are in no creek and do not have to start paddling. Here was a thread from earlier this week, exactly the same:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5412139

However, a complaint to the Trust isn't pointless so escalate that if fobbed off at first. As Redx said on that other thread, quote the Jeremy Hunt guidelines at them, get the union involved too.

HTH

Tony1987_2

After reading the thing about the debt collectors previously, I wasnt worried about them, thanks to your guys advice. However, now that its got to debt collectors, is there nothing else i can do? I was under the impression that even though it went to the debt collectors, there we just acting as agents, and so, should the landowners thing not be successful, i could ignore the debt collectors and speak to the creditors directly. Needless to say, the creditors seem to be less than happy to talk to me, and keep shuffling me on to DR+

Redx

you can only do what we have advised you to do, nothing else

the only way to get it sorted is to get the trust to cancel it, or to "time out" after 6 years as the statute for small claims court is 6 years in england

you seem to be looking for a ?"harry potter magic wand" approach, there isnt one I am afraid to say, no easy getout other than a landowner cancellation (or to stupidly pay in full - not recommended) or let it "time out" after 6 years, or civil court if Legion are stupid enough to try it

stop being like a drowning person clutching at straws, you asked for advice and got the best free advice available

its cancel, wait it out , pay up , or court

Tony1987_2

No no, im just trying to fully understand whats happened, and how the work and go about this.

many thanks for your advice

Coupon-mad

You are stuck with the threatograms and can't appeal or get an answer from a PPC at this stage. Landowner/Trust/Union complaints can be done but if no joy there it's just a matter of ignoring it till it fizzles out. Legion are highly unlikely to try anything else.

Remember we ALL did ignore in the past, every single person here ignored fake PCNs, before the POFA 2012 gave the dark side keeper liability but gave victims POPLA. So you are just acting under 'old' forum rules now, due to missing the appeal deadline, no big deal.

Guys_Dad

In some ways, you are now better off than before.

DR+ would have to take you to court to get any money out of you. But they would then have to prove the case and as there is no proof of any debt, unlike debt collectors appointed after a court adjudication. Without it, they fall foul of something called "Champerty and Maintenance". Now I am no expert on this and all I have gleaned is from reading other threads but to a layman it means that they have no proven claim. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Champerty+and+Maintenance

And you have it in writing from the PPC that they are no longer have an interest in this case. You tried to discuss it with them and that's what they said.

I hope I am correct in this summation and hopefully another MSE regular with more intimate knowledge can confirm this.

But as said, in the meantime, you will no doubt collect a few more threats and offers from the debt collectors.