Hacker Classic vs Systemat

shomoo

hi All
QQ regarding diff b/w the Classic and Systemat:
- Is there any difference in the carcass build b/w the 2 - in terms of material, strength etc?
- if not, then is the difference primarily b/w the choice of doors and some optional extras like dust selant etc?
- Whats a typical price difference say if the classic comes to 8K for units , how much to expect for Systemat?
Any insights will be really really helpful
Best regards
SG

ryder72

Its the same carcase but I believe colour choice is available in grey and white interior on Systemat.

Systemat is a 780mm carcase, higher spec drawer box and the options mentioned.

Price difference at trade should be about 15%. But depending on the retailer, this could be offered with a much bigger markup.

shomoo

Thanks I've now got some wildly varying quotes! Not sure which to believe!
A systemat 6000 quote ranging from 7k to 9k while from one supplier for the same design a systemat 6000 for 7k and a classic avus for 5k. That's a 40% diff!

Furts

shomoo wrote: »

Thanks I've now got some wildly varying quotes! Not sure which to believe!
A systemat 6000 quote ranging from 7k to 9k while from one supplier for the same design a systemat 6000 for 7k and a classic avus for 5k. That's a 40% diff!

Welcome to the world of independent kitchen retailers and also to the world of German kitchens.

Your experience is why many people choose to avoid both.

Best of luck in your quest to de-mystify matters.

ryder72

Welcome to the world of independent kitchen retailers and also to the world of German kitchens.

What is your point? That is how the world of business works and its nothing to do with independent retailers or German kitchen or for that matter kitchens.

A seller will aim to maximise their profit and its down to the buyer to unravel facts. Dont you try and get the best price when you sell your used car? Dont you negotiate the best salary package when you get a new job? Or if you are self employed dont you try and charge what you feel your service/goods are worth? Not everyone will accept your argument but that doesnt make your approach wrong.

What is wrong is trying to deceive.

See my original reply to OP where I have transparently laid bare facts and its clear that some retailers out there are trying it on if the comparison is truly like for like. I can see the comparison isnt a true like for like so the 15% difference has diverged to a wider one.

Furts

ryder72 wrote: »

What is your point? That is how the world of business works and its nothing to do with independent retailers or German kitchen or for that matter kitchens.

A seller will aim to maximise their profit and its down to the buyer to unravel facts. Dont you try and get the best price when you sell your used car? Dont you negotiate the best salary package when you get a new job? Or if you are self employed dont you try and charge what you feel your service/goods are worth? Not everyone will accept your argument but that doesnt make your approach wrong.

What is wrong is trying to deceive.

See my original reply to OP where I have transparently laid bare facts and its clear that some retailers out there are trying it on if the comparison is truly like for like. I can see the comparison isnt a true like for like so the 15% difference has diverged to a wider one.

You have offered help to OP which I am sure is appreciated.

Your guidance would have been more lucid if you stated the trade price for this item is "x" and the trade price for that item is "y". To this you would add whether these trade prices are subject to discounts and rebates. This would then give a truly informed debate and be in full compliance with a money saving ethos.

Instead you have said 15%. I am suggesting this ducks the question and also overlooks whether this with, or without, the addition of VAT.

Your reply did not state the obvious which is any independent kitchen retailer will charge as much as they can possibly screw out of the consumer. You know that, and I know that. There is a possibility that OP does not realise that, and this was the ethos behind my reply.

OP is welcome to specify whatever they wish, and to purchase where ever they wish. However, the indisputable bottom line is a kitchen will be cheaper if it was not specified as a German kitchen from an independent retailer. On this we will have to agree to disagree!

CKdesigner

Sorry Furts

I think you are being rather harsh their saying that 'obviously any kitchen retailer will 'screw' as much as they can out of their customers'. Of course some will but I would say it's much less than 1 out of 10. The vast majority of independent traders will treat their customers properly and sell the products they do as cheaply as they can to maintain their businesses. This way they get well thought of in their communities and get recommendations. It's a simple philosophy but certainly seems to work for us and as I say the vast majority of Independents, whether in the kitchen industry or not.

Another small point, Ryder72 couldn't state Hacker trade prices because he is not a a Hacker retailer and neither should he state trade prices on here as this is a consumer forum not a trade one.

If the OP wants a German kitchen then that is up to them, as I have said many times before we do the German kitchen makes we do, not because they are German but because we feel they offer the best choice and value for money at their relative price points.

CK

Furts

CKdesigner wrote: »

Sorry Furts

I think you are being rather harsh their saying that 'obviously any kitchen retailer will 'screw' as much as they can out of their customers'. Of course some will but I would say it's much less than 1 out of 10. The vast majority of independent traders will treat their customers properly and sell the products they do as cheaply as they can to maintain their businesses. This way they get well thought of in their communities and get recommendations. It's a simple philosophy but certainly seems to work for us and as I say the vast majority of Independents, whether in the kitchen industry or not.

Another small point, Ryder72 couldn't state Hacker trade prices because he is not a a Hacker retailer and neither should he state trade prices on here as this is a consumer forum not a trade one.

If the OP wants a German kitchen then that is up to them, as I have said many times before we do the German kitchen makes we do, not because they are German but because we feel they offer the best choice and value for money at their relative price points.

CK

I am not looking to cross swords, but I have said before there is not a good independent within miles of me. Consumers use the independents that are within the area, and they may rave about them. The reality is these businesses are dire and consumers meekly accept this. It is a case of ignorance is bliss, and lambs to the slaughter.

It is for these reasons that I always say give first refusal to Howdens, Magnet Trade, Tradepoint and Benchmarx. Yes these are trade orientated but that way one avoids all the puff that goes with independents and what you see is what you get. By doing so, and playing one off against another value can be obtained.

CKdesigner

Of course Furts, we both want to offer our best advice to people with questions on this forum.

If all the Independent Kitchen Specialists around you are so bad then maybe I should look at opening another branch near you! ��

You mention the trade kitchen suppliers, I generally feel these suppliers don't offer good value for money, but are kind of OK if all you want is a basic set of boxes to fill a space and put your stuff in. But if the consumer wants a properly designed space that considers all of their requirements, and they want to be introduced to all the latest technologies in the kitchen then they would be pretty disappointed with the trade suppliers!

CK

shomoo

Thanks all of you. I think I'm decided on going for hacker as against benchmarx, Wren Linda Barker etc. Really liked the finish for hacker (Alno for similar finish is more expensive)
My dilemma is still choosing b/w Systemat and Classic.
Fro example, if the same finish (satin lacquered base + wood finish wall units for 2 tone) and colour choice is available in Classic and Systemat , what is the difference in quality of finish, material etc . Will it be worth paying the extra 10% or 15% for systemat, if I can find the same colour and finish in Classic?

EssexExile

It's a kitchen, if you can't see the difference now you definitely won't in 6 months time. In fact you'll have forgotten what make it is let alone which version. Their website says it all really "The many innovative functions of this kitchen turn cooking into a real experience". Good grief.