UKPC Parking Charge

Mooknoir

Hi All,

So I submitted my appeal on the 12th March as suggested 25 days after ticket.

Today 6th April I got a letter informing me that my appeal was declined and I have been given a POPLA code or option to pay.

I've looked at some of the other POPLA threads but can't see anything that's particularly similar to my case, so I'm wondering how best to tackle this POPLA appeal.

The driver was parked in front of UKPC signage on double yellow lines, so can't argue about Pay and Display etc.

Does anyone have any ideas on the best things to focus on for this appeal?

Thanks

Redx

read post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread, plus search for recent 2016 popla appeal examples using the forum search box too

as for signage, check to see if it fails the BPA CoP, despite whatever the pics say , plus UKPC have form for doctoring photos, so query their validity too

and read my comments in this thread as well, about what grounds popla have allowed recent appeals on, especially GRACE PERIODS in your case

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5390160

your "circumstances" could be largely irrelevant, as your appeal will be based on legal arguments including GRACE PERIODS but also some or all of the rest as well

plus if they fail to send the NTK by day 56 that is another legal point, so dont be in a rush to submit your popla appeal yet, work on it and check its expiry date over on parking cowboys website

edit

Your starting date is February 16, 2016 so that means that 56 days later would be April 12, 2016

Coupon-mad

Mooknoir wrote: »

Hi All,

So I submitted my appeal on the 12th March as suggested 25 days after ticket.

Today 6th April I got a letter informing me that my appeal was declined and I have been given a POPLA code or option to pay.

I've looked at some of the other POPLA threads but can't see anything that's particularly similar to my case, so I'm wondering how best to tackle this POPLA appeal.

THE DRIVER was parked in front of UKPC signage on double yellow lines, so I obviously can't argue about Pay and Display etc.

Does anyone have any ideas on the best things to focus on for this appeal?

Thanks

As Redx says, have you forgotten the entire point of appealing as keeper to a windscreen PCN? So as to make UKPC forget to send a NTK?!

'No keeper liability under the POFA' is point #1 of course, on any registered keeper's POPLA appeal - but you will have to quote para 8 of Schedule 4 to POPLA to make sure the assessor MIGHT just get it...you need to explain that a lack of NTK is fatal to their case because the driver has not been identified. There is no other lawful way a keeper can be liable for a PCN incurred on private land.

Show us your draft first.

Also being parked near a UKPC sign is still not helpful to them because if you log into their website you will find a nice grainy photo of an illegible sign. Embed a screenshot of their OWN photo into your second appeal point about illegible signage.

If a driver can't read the sum of the parking charge (the £100) before parking - because the font is too small/the sign unremarkable and too high to read from a driver's seat - then they cannot have agreed to it. Also, a keeper appellant cannot be bound by inadequate notice of the charge either (POFA Schedule 4 requires 'adequate notice' of the sum of the parking charge, not just vague illegible small print, however near the car).

The well-known and oft used 'Red Hand Rule' in the binding case of J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw [1956] applies, where Denning LJ stated: ''Some clauses which I have seen would need to be printed in red ink...with a red hand pointing to it before the notice could be held to be sufficient''. In Mendelson v Normand and Thornton v Shoe Lane which were both about parking, this was also clearly stated by Denning LJ:

‘The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue…was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it – or something equally startling.’

i.e. even if a document or notice is ostensibly under the nose of a consumer, the onerous term (e.g. £100 charge for a 2 minute stop which on double yellows is not normally in this Country, a contravention at all) needs to be VERY explicit and prominent. Not hidden among small print on a sign, regardless of whether that sign is in the vicinity of the car. This was reiterated by Denning LJ in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] where he held that the courts should not hold any man bound by such a condition unless it was ''drawn to his attention in the most explicit way''. Small print on an illegible, unremarkable and pale sign on a wall is not enough and is not on a par with the very clear signs 'with the charge in large lettering' as was explored and vital to the decision in Parking Eye v Beavis.

Double yellows alone do not preclude stopping because (under the Highway Code, being the accepted definition of lines, in the absence of signs to the contrary) a driver could be undertaking exempt activity. E.g. loading/unloading items (or assisting a passenger to board/alight, among other exemptions) which is perfectly acceptable on double yellows. In the normal course of events on street, as known to any competent UK driver, a car can stop on these lines for a few minutes without being in contravention; double yellows are NOT an indicator of a 'no stopping zone' for an immediate ticket. So, a £100 fine for such activity over just a couple of minutes (when up to 20 minutes with at least five minutes observation, is the usual rule for loading/unloading on street) is certainly not the norm and so £100 charge is indisputably an unexpected term, just the sort of onerous clause which Lord Denning had in mind.

You can assert that the signs/lines were unclear and the driver was merely there for less than 5 minutes for an exempt activity. You can use the above wording and case law to argue that point.


P.S. - URGENT:

GO BACK OVER YOUR POSTS AND EDIT IN 'THE DRIVER' AS I HAVE SHOWN IN RED, WHERE EVER YOU TALK ABOUT WHO PARKED/WAS DRIVING!! YOU KEEP SAYING IT HERE. STOP. THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM AND CAN BE READ BY PARKING FIRMS (HAS BEEN IN THE PAST).

Mooknoir

Ok thanks guys,

I will write something up and post it for comment shortly.

I've received no NTK as yet and it's the 13th today, however their last correspondence was dated 6 days before it arrived. So I guess I need to wait and see over the rest of this week?

Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

No. You will not get a NTK so prepare your POPLA appeal regardless. By the time UKPC then read your submitted POPLA appeal next week, it will be too late for them (that's why we delay first appeal for over 3 weeks, to get you safely to this point).

Re the signage, use the wording I gave you above, including the case law/Lord Denning stuff and include quotes from the Beavis case about signage lettering/prominence being key.

Re 'no landowner authority', quote 7.3 of the BPA CoP.

Re 'no keeper liability' make it clear you are the keeper and the driver has never been identified.

Here is a recent work in progress (different facts & PPC):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5422280

...which shows the sort of detail to go into and at the end I have suggested some extra wording quoting the stated 'old' POPLA policy and their clear understanding of keeper liability. Use that too. Imagine you are training the new POPLA assessors on the POFA 2012 (someone has to!).

Then show us your draft.

Mooknoir

Totally let this slip my mind, just so busy at the moment.


Trying to get something written up today, if I have time. :-/

Coupon-mad

You have 28 days (in fact, the code works for just a couple more days beyond 28) so this week it must go in.

Mooknoir

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You have 28 days (in fact, the code works for just a couple more days beyond 28) so this week it must go in.

Yea I think it's got to be done by Friday, does the above look any good?

The_Deep

Personally, I think that you are taking this thoroughly discredited company far too seriously, I would save my big guns for PoPLA.

Coupon-mad

He is at POPLA stage, TD.