ParkingEye - Fined despite paying

sa22ie

Hi all,

A little help please... (sorry about the back story #complicated)

I've just received a fine from an 'offence' 6 weeks ago. :mad:

I drove into an unfamiliar, small, central car park at night. I got out of my car to view the parking fair and spent a few minutes trying to figure it out. There was details of the fair between 8am and 5pm, then a price for all night parking but there was no details about parking charges after 5pm if you weren't staying all night. I spoke to another driver who pulled in as I was looking to see if he used the car park often enough to know but he didn't. We stood together looking at the tariff but he also didn't understand the signage and felt in the same predicament. I crossed the road to the gallery (where I was headed) and asked if they knew what the parking fair was, but they didn't. I got change from a tenner at the gallery incase the change I came prepared with wasn't enough and as I came out the other driver had just got off the phone to someone he knew who did use the car park regularly who said "Just keep putting money in the metre and it will tell you how many hours you have." I put money in the meter and paid what I think was the equivalent of the all night fee and displayed my ticket.

I obviously didn't keep the pay and display ticket so I have no physical evidence that I paid.

What I didn't realise is that the carpark was a camera operated one so they've clocked me coming and going but perhaps haven't noted the fact I purchased a ticked because of the delay between me entering and actually buying the ticket.

Do you think I have grounds for appeal?

If two of us (intelligent adults) can't work out what the carpark tariff is after 5pm and despite the confusion I DID buy and display a ticket.

The challenge is I have no proof I paid, and I'm not 100% how much I put in the machine, it was either 4 hours which may have been £5 (in which case I over stayed 12 minutes due to the afore mentioned confusion) or I paid the equivalent of the all night. The fine is £100! or £60 if paid early which is dismissed if I have to appeal to POPLA. Worst case is I genuinely overstayed 12 mins due to not understanding the tariff, in which case that's a bit steep! :eek:)

Any comments welcome ASAP the 14 day clock is ticking!

Thanks
Sarah

Marktheshark

Advice to save money is to avoid car parks run by this company, the risks are simply too high.

Please go to the top of the board and read the stickies and newbies thread and for Gods sake learn to stay out of their car parks or shops and businesses that use them.

Umkomaas

Were you required to key in your car's VRM into the ticket machine? Did you do so?

I assume you've appealed to PE? If so, did you identify the driver, like with phrases such as 'I paid', 'I did this', 'I did that'?

Can you let us see a (redacted) copy of your appeal please?

sa22ie

Thanks Mark, I've already signed the petition.
I've not come across this company before and will certainly be avoiding this company in the future. What's your view on my grounds of appeal? I'm going to go and photograph the tariff board to highlight how I found it confusing, but is there anything else you'd recommend?

Thanks
Sarah

sa22ie

To Umkomass: I've just this evening received the PCN so I haven't written the appeal yet. What difference does saying 'I did this" make? How would you recommend I position the appeal?

I don't believe I put in the full reg but may have put in the numbers, I can't remember, it was 6 weeks ago and I'm not familiar with that carpark.

Coupon-mad

Your appeal is explained in the NEWBIES thread, pre-written for the registered keeper to use (DO NOT admit the driver). And your second stage appeal at POPLA is explained in links and examples in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, top of this forum.

You must NOT add 'I did this, I did that' because, very obviously, that tells PE who was driving and you want to keep all your appeal options open.

Don't write appeals yourself and don't add to the short recommended version, don't try to explain what happened or you give away the driver. Do use PE's online page but only choose 'registered keeper' to ID yourself unless you are in fact the day to day lessee/keeper of a company or hire car, in which case choose ONLY 'lessee/hirer'.

I say that because I can't understand why this took an enormously long 6 weeks to reach you unless it first of all went to a lease or company owner who then named you as the person responsible as the day to day keeper of the vehicle. So, is that the case? Or is there no explanation for the delay in it reaching you? Who owns the vehicle?

Umkomaas

Because 'I did this' gives a fair hint as to who the driver was, not the best position for anybody to be in when the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 provides protection to the keeper of the vehicle and a 'get out of jail free' card if the PPC fails to meet the very strict requirements of the Act in pursuing the keeper.

You will note that the letter you've just received will be headed 'Notice to Keeper', because they don't know who the driver was. They never will, unless there is an admission as to who the driver was. ANPR cameras only record car number plates, they are not facial recognition enabled, nor are they CCTV cameras. 'Me, myself and I' are terms very much to be avoided in any correspondence with the PPC.

None of this stuff is simple; you need to understand what it is you're dealing with. Firing random questions seeking 'magic bullet' answers won't give you the knowledge to deal with this, and in any case you won't get a 'magic bullet' solution.

You need to read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky which provides you with the in depth details on how to deal with this. It is not a 'quick skim' job, you need to sit down with a cup of tea (not a glass of red wine - especially after today's health warning! ) and a notepad and go through it in manageable chunks over a couple of days or so. After that you will be able to ask more targeted questions (rather than randoms) and we can get on with guiding you through this.

I'm glad you haven't sent any appeal in, because in the sticky there is a ready made one for you, the contents of which avoids you inadvertently identifying the driver. Use this totally unadulterated, do not alter or add anything.

You've got 28 days in which to make your initial appeal, don't rush it, spend some time learning the ropes first. But don't miss the deadline by taking your eye off the ball. You've got at least two or three weeks to gain some confidence in dealing with this before firing off your initial appeal.

HTH.

sa22ie

It is a lease car. I am the lease holder/registered keeper but I don't feel comfortable lying about not driving.

I'm making at attempt at reading through the other links and legislation paragraphs but I'll be honest this is seriously taxing as I'm dyslexic. The way those things are written really doesn't absorb well with me.

Coupon-mad

We are NOT NOT NOT telling you to lie. Believe us, we are NOT.

We are saying you must choose 'lessee/hirer' if you want to win this appeal. PE sue people who lose so you want to win it. Please listen to our advice and use the pre-written appeal.

Have you found the wording in blue in the NEWBIES thread, the first appeal for BPA members?

sa22ie

Thanks Coupon-Mad,

I've been reading through the Newbies and Sticky post and come across the blue pre-written note about not having sufficient signage and seeing the policy with the landowner or getting a POPLA number. So that's step 1, to send that via their online appeals but using my details as the lessee?

Coupon-mad

Yes. It is that easy at this stage.

BTW, there is NO '14 day clock' which you mentioned in your first post. Read it again, that's for people who roll over and rush to pay at the 'discount'. You are not paying, Do not pay and appeal, just appeal but do not comment as to who was or wasn't the driver.

As a lessee/hirer, I think your PCN tells you that you have 21 days to appeal (not 28) doesn't it, at the bottom of the front page? And tell us, did they include any extra paperwork or just the PCN posted to you? I suspect the answer is no extra paperwork. So, we predict this is a winning POPLA appeal in the end...