Advice - contract with Rawreth Builders Limited

naedanger

I think you have been asked a few times who you paid for the work. It could be a very important point. Ideally you will have evidence you made the payments to the builder himself rather than another company. If all payments have been to his company then you will need a good explanation for why you believe your contract was with him personally.

hollydays

Also in case it has any importance, the length of time this had been going on for, was it about 18 months for example?

Also the planning permission was applied for in his personal name rather than a company name ( not sure if that is the norm or not)

hollydays

I just want to add something that's already online , again in case it is significant as info seems to be coming out in drabs and drabs .

It has been said about this builder :

"...he complained he had been blamed for bad workmanship when the work was actually done by sub-contractors of his Limited Company. Therefore, he says, he cannot be blamed because the Ltd Company chose the sub contractors, not him.

When we pointed out to him that, as sole director, it was clearly him that chose the sub-contractprs and was directly responsible for the quality of their work he said....."it was not me, it was a Ltd Company, big difference"

Ripped-Off

It shouldn't make any difference. If you can prove you were in contract with him, then he was required to produce a result, not necessarily by his own effort. He remained vicariously liable for the performance of the builder (his own company I know) and the sub-contractors, see British Waggon Co v Lea [1880].

If you paid him any money at all then that is valuable consideration. What consideration did he supply in return.....possibly a Project Management Service?

Look at it this way. When the big clients want a building, they engage an architect, quantity surveyor etc. These people provide design and cost management services; they prepare and obtain quotes and award the contract. They always remain liable to the client in contract or negligence, even though the client will also have a contract with the builder. You are in a similar position as any other client.

You could sue him for inadequate supervision or negligent certification perhaps. If you could prove that he was the Project Manager and supervised or certified the works as okay to pay, and you subsequently paid the builder, only to discover the work was defective, then he is liable in negligence or in contract. In Sutcliffe v Thakrah (1974) 4 BLR 16 an architect was liable to the client for negligent certification. The court also said in respect of supervision:

"If by reason of negligent supervision on the part of an architect loss or damage results for an owner it could hardly be contended, and indeed it is not contended, that the architect could escape liability to the owner for such negligent supervision".

Update

Forgot to mention the case of Pratt v George Hill (1987) 38 BLR 25 where an architect recommended a firm of builders as "very reliable". In the event, the builders were very unreliable.

Disputes arose which were referred to arbitration, during the arbitration builder went bust. Pratt then commenced proceedings against the architect claiming damages for their negligence in recommending the builders.

At the first trial the architects were held to be liable but the claim for damages and the costs of the arbitration were disallowed on the grounds that the cause of these losses was the builders insolvency, and that the duty of the architect did not extend to protecting the claimant from that insolvency or the risk thereof.

Held, on appeal, that these losses were recoverable as caused by the architect's incompetence, not the builder's insolvency and so the architect was liable.

clockworkdog

I'm really grateful for the advice. All is very useful. I've just spoken to Citizens Advice and they went through everything in quite some detail.

They have referred the case to Trading Standards. They also said that regardless of anything subsequent (who was paid etc.), they think the contract is with him as (text removed by MSE Forum Team). and not with Rawreth Builders (Limited or otherwise).

They have recommended pursuing for damages as well and cite breaches of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. I will pursue an will update on outcome!

Thanks again for the help on here. Very much appreciated!

wiseweld

"Hi

I am after some help. I appreciate that advice is not any guarentee of how a county court will determine the case in light of the full facts."

Here are some facts from an out of work construction worker! (Text removed by MSE Forum Team)., for a Metropolitan Police Superintendant you play the ignorant fool very well. If anyone knows contract law it would be someone in your position. I worked at your house and have worked for Rawreth builders in the past and am bemused at your act of nievity or stupidity? The facts are you had a small bungalow turned into A stunning new home. The property was extended and the orignal property completely dissapeared. Pretending that you have some how been swindled and making Rawreth Builders out to be some sort of cowboy outfit that has ridden off into the sunset with your hard earned money is disgraceful. It shows incredible manipulation of the facts but hey you don't get to the height of Superintendant without treading on a few poor souls on the way up! You have manipulated the facts that I feel I have to interject. The mere fact that you have put probably two dozen honest professional trades people out of work by closing down what was a successful and professional small building company would give any normal human being with any conscience or empathy a difficluty in sleeping but I doubt that is you! You were advised throughout the conversion of your old chalet bungalow into the now existing luxurious detached 5 bedroom with 3 ensuites new kitchen breakfast suite with large or HUGE flat roof extention to rear with skylights. In fact to be honest when I worked at your home as with all the other trades people there was a huge sigh of relief when you left as you are one of the most passive aggressive and controlling people that we ever worked for but thats just personal opinion. I won't mention the £1500 solid stone bath you insisted on. I mean I have worked in the construction industry for nearly 25 years and time and again I here of them being conned by not crooks but the very people that are there to protect us from crooks! It pays to know the system. Having spoken to (text removed by MSE Forum Team). I wonder why do you take him to court in Nottingham? Why not go to court in Essex!

hollydays

Not sure what " wisewelds" point is?
Other than Some kind of " reverse snobbery" that the ops had a large renovation project carried out, which we'd all guessed anyway.
There's more to thread than meets the eye though.

Bollotom

hollydays wrote: »

Not sure what " wisewelds" point is?
Other than Some kind of " reverse snobbery" that the ops had a large renovation project carried out, which we'd all guessed anyway.
There's more to thread than meets the eye though.

Possibly Wiseweld is used to working with horses himself, or could even be said head honcho, (text removed by MSE Forum Team) of Rawreth Builders fame. Been many times to Hullbridge Sports Club and lots of unsavouries there. I have heard loud bragging of certain practices, mainly of a dishones bent, occuring.

(Text removed by MSE Forum Team)

OP needs to pursue this via legal advice. Let's hope for an honest outcome, though Rawreth Builders may still be a bit shy. :cool:

wiseweld

I am utterly disgusted by your Racism and Classism? Wow what do you do for a living American Police person in Jacksonville? I have requested the post be deleted. I'm appalled you would have written it. It shows how you think you are safe hiding behind the secrecy of a computer keypad. I see you like to stick you nose in a lot by you amount of posts and probably thrive on writing as disgusting remarks as you have left on here.
Mummy would be proud!

wealdroam

wiseweld wrote: »

I am utterly disgusted by your Racism and Classism? Wow what do you do for a living American Police person in Jacksonville? I have requested the post be deleted. I'm appalled you would have written it. It shows how you think you are safe hiding behind the secrecy of a computer keypad. I see you like to stick you nose in a lot by you amount of posts and probably thrive on writing as disgusting remarks as you have left on here.
Mummy would be proud!

Racism? What are you talking about? I see no racism.

What on earth is classism?