Nice People Thread No. 15, a Cyber Summer

GDB2222

michaels wrote: »

Between 1995 and 2010 life expectancy for men in the UK at age 65 went up from 14.6 to 18.3 years.

During that period 'healthy life expectancy' (without life-limiting illness or disability) has fallen.....

Perhaps we need to think of quality of life as well as just length before denying people things that some find to be one of life's pleasures....

I'm not able to find that info for healthy life expectancy. Do you have a linky, please?

I found this https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/464275/gs-15-13-future-ageing-trends-life-expectancy-er12.pdf

That seems to contradict you, albeit for a different period of years - see para 2.4.

kabayiri

As a neutral can I just say ...
CMON Liverpool!!!
DS and I are here early waiting for the atmosphere to build

Sounds like spurs are up against a good side...

PasturesNew

kabayiri wrote: »

.... here early waiting for the atmosphere to build...

And working out your best "how to get a hot pie/fastest" strategy I hope!

ukmaggie45

kabayiri wrote: »

As a neutral can I just say ...
CMON Liverpool!!!
DS and I are here early waiting for the atmosphere to build

Sounds like spurs are up against a good side...

One of these day's you'll arrive early enough to come and visit and OH will take you round the pubs of Liverpool. Or we could do a barbie in the garden if it's warm. :rotfl:

Come on You Reds!

PasturesNew

Here we go. BBC2. Starting now.

They start with a gang family of girls - all but one were transported to Aus.

The Gadbury Sisters.

Caroline Gadbury was interviewed by a bloke who was concerned about the underclass and behaviour. He published the interviews at the time.

Three sisters: Mary Ann, Caroline, Sarah. They were robbing wealthy Londoners, they'd make £3-4/day, they spent it on clothes, shows and dances.

Mary Anne stole 20 yards of fabric from a haberdashers, that she'd shoved up her skirt. A crowd of 100 people were watching as she fought the police and shouted.

One of Caroline's descendants is a court Judge (Australian). He said, at the time, she wasn't allowed to give evidence in her own defence. She was sentenced to 7 years' transportation.

Once transported you couldn't easily get back as the passage was so expensive, which is why most stayed there.

Caroline was given a job at the Master's house on Van Dieman's land. March 1839, Master Campbell kept finding her drunk and absent. She was sent to prison and then to a new master, who found her drunk/absent. She kept going in/out of prison for 3 years. Then she calmed down. She finally got her freedom in 1845.

She met Charles Chapman and had 3 kids. Two died and her husband did. Just her and daughter Sarah. They lived alone for 5 years. She met George Ogilvie, from Aberdeen. His 1st wife'd died and he had a son Jimmy. They married.

Jimmy had two sons, Eric and Albert.

The family ran a pub.

Eric & Albert built political careers, hoping for a better deal for working people; they wanted to help the needy/disadvantaged. They were elected and became the Premier and the Attorney General of the State of Tasmania. Albert attended George V's coronation in London. He visited Mussolini, he tried to meet Hitler too. They have a lot of video coverage of this due to how they turned out.
There was a huge State funeral.

Now interviewing Albert's son, who is an old fella (74). "Did you know they were convicts?" and he said he was never told; he said his dad must've known.

Albert Junior's daughter's becoming a politician. Madeleine Ogilvie MP. Vice President of the Tasmanian Labour Party.


Caroline's daughter Sarah married Arthur Miles. They had 6 children. They had a bootmaking business (from Arthur's family). They then owned 9 fancy houses.

Sarah/Arthur decided they had enough money to change their family fortunes forever and sent their children to a private school. They have a photo of them and the school enrolment book. They were all there at the time, six lots of fees at the same time.

It was felt the kids'd have known of their convict past, but told to never speak of it. You kept quiet about it then.

1903 Sarah/Arthur moved to Sydney.

Nell and Elsie, unmarried sisters, worked at a school, Normanhurst, but they weren't really accepted. So they upped their game and put on an English accent and acted/dressed like ladies to be accepted. The more British you appeared, the more you were thought of.

Now another descendant, they just spent $2million on doing up their current house. She grew up with monogrammed clothes/handkerchiefs etc.

=====
Sarah Eliza Gadbury.

By 16 the sisters were setting money aside for lawyers, bribing police and really being organised.

Sarah was in Newgate Prison awaiting trial. In 1837 she seems to have a husband but he's a mystery and only appears in her letters. She knew she was facing transportation. She was transported and never saw her family again. She arrived in NSW, 650 miles away from Caroline. She was put to work as a servant.

There's no record of her being in trouble with her Master. In Tasmania (where Caroline had been) they were all convicts, so no discrimination. Where Sarah went there were more free settlers, so a lot of discrimination.

3 years into her sentence she married William Robins, a freeman. They had 9 children.

Sarah's downline are "regular people", not the posh lot like Caroline's are.

These living descendents are describing living in a slum village, sleeping on sacking. Living in shanty shacks built from what you could find. Then the Govt built proper houses for them.

No Judges here.... it's manual workers.

These interviewees are GGG-grandchildren, roughly.

This next one Elaine Sandie Dickson's daughter. Not sure who she is really, they are fast with the charts and there are loads of them. She says there was still the stigma when she was growing up, being called an ex-convict - in her lifetime (she's 40s/50s). It still goes on today.

Another GGG-granddaughter, Karen.
She's not ashamed of being a convict descendant.

Sarah changed when she was transported. She changed and got on with her life. They all mostly still live in the same area.

In 1906, aged 86, Sarah died at the home of her daughter Susan.

====
The programme brought all the descendants together for the first time.

Presenter's just got told off by the posh bloke. Presenter pointed out that the others are "working class" - and the posh bloke said "You don't talk about that, it's offensive" and got quite strong/aggressive!

====
Mary Anne the third sister. Caught in the haberdashery shop, stealing material by shoving it up her dress - went to the Old Bailey. She got 6 months' prison. But she went straight after that. She got married, settled down and never got another conviction. She was never transported.

All her descendants are still in the Shoreditch area.

The Wardleys.

They're London working class. This one's said none of his kids have ever been in court, nor his grandchildren. But he was a bit of a baddun when he was young.

George Shaw & Family

They're a bit smarter. Just tidy working class.

William Miles, the Interviewer

What happened to the man who interviewed the prisoners in the first instance?

The man who interviewed her was William Miles - he set up a national police force. The Govt sent him to Sydney in the end as he was becoming a nuisance to the Govt.

He lost his job due to drinking. He's buried under what's a car park now.

He had no children, so no descendants

THE END.

GDB2222

kabayiri wrote: »

As a neutral can I just say ...
CMON Liverpool!!!
DS and I are here early waiting for the atmosphere to build

Sounds like spurs are up against a good side...

Sooooooo....? What happened? I'm guessing that this is football related?

michaels

Strange we haven't had the general on talking about the spurs....

Generali

kabayiri wrote: »

As a neutral can I just say ...
CMON Liverpool!!!
DS and I are here early waiting for the atmosphere to build

Sounds like spurs are up against a good side...

Spurs B Team at that.

Good work by the Red Scousers though. I always like seeing Man U getting beaten. I think it's something to do with a Surrey upbringing They say you know when Man U are playing at home because the M6 is jammed with Land Rovers driving up from Godalming.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Strange we haven't had the general on talking about the spurs....

Not dodging it, I've had a busy day.

I had to finish off my research and on top of that two separate teams want to talk to me about it which brings in a whole load of Chinese Walls stuff. Then two of the most pointless meetings I've ever sat in. Nice people. Waste of time.

Then The Boy went off to his first Scout camp. He's done cubs and Joeys but never Scouts.

Spurs. Concentrate on the league. Sick as a parrot. I've fallen off my chair Bryan.

We put out the second XI against one of the top ten (?) teams in Europe and got spanked. I'm not surprised. Disappointed but not surprised.

GDB2222

I am bad! Not worthy to be posting on the nice people thread! I'm afraid that I chortled when I read that Jamie Gilt, a prominent pro-gun lobbyist, was shot in the back by her four year old son, using a large calibre hand gun she just happened to have left on the back seat of her car, next to him.

She had previously described how she spent time showing him how to use guns. It's a shame she didn't spend more time telling him not to.