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Homelessness

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  • Poppie68
    Poppie68 Posts: 4,881 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    If you suspect someone is having a heart attack would you just leave them without getting them to hospital or calling an ambulance? They could just have bad indigestion, but until they have had clinical intervention then nobody will know...A&E is there for emergency treatment, suspected hypothermia if severe needs emergency treatment the best and only way for a homeless person to be diagnosed and treated is by going to A&E..

    I worked for the NHS for many years and detest abuse of the system but if someone suspects another of suffering from Hypothermia it's not an abuse of the system to take them to A&E..It's what the department was designed for...
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    Poppie68 wrote: »
    If you suspect someone is having a heart attack would you just leave them without getting them to hospital or calling an ambulance? They could just have bad indigestion, but until they have had clinical intervention then nobody will know...A&E is there for emergency treatment, suspected hypothermia if severe needs emergency treatment the best and only way for a homeless person to be diagnosed and treated is by going to A&E.. - No, but a suspected heart attack is much easier to diagnose. The person collapses, they are unresponsive, their breathing is shallow. It is something which you 'see happen'. If you come across any person who is completely unresponsive, it's worth getting medical assistance. A&E is not the only place to get treatment.

    I worked for the NHS for many years and detest abuse of the system but if someone suspects another of suffering from Hypothermia it's not an abuse of the system to take them to A&E..It's what the department was designed for...

    No, A&E is designed for ACCIDENTS AND EMERGENCIES.


    A stab wound for example would be appropriate


    Getting hit by a vehicle


    Losing consciousness


    Severe bleeding


    Suspected hypothermia can be diagnosed by a paramedic in a response vehicle.
  • Poppie68 wrote: »
    If you suspect someone is having a heart attack would you just leave them without getting them to hospital or calling an ambulance? They could just have bad indigestion, but until they have had clinical intervention then nobody will know...A&E is there for emergency treatment, suspected hypothermia if severe needs emergency treatment the best and only way for a homeless person to be diagnosed and treated is by going to A&E..

    I worked for the NHS for many years and detest abuse of the system but if someone suspects another of suffering from Hypothermia it's not an abuse of the system to take them to A&E..It's what the department was designed for...

    If you have indeed "worked for the NHS for many years" and with specific regard to that which I highlight in red, from the training which has been compulsory within the NHS for many years you will:

    A/ know that ANY form of physical contact with another person may leave you liable to legal action.
    B/ know that unlike television drama you CAN NOT simply take another person anywhere yourself without their express agreement.
    C/ understand that in order to best protect yourself AND the "other person", you MUST dial 999 and request (in your scenario) an ambulance.
    D/ know better than you have written above.

    Before you question, yes I AM in a position to be certain of this.
  • Poppie68
    Poppie68 Posts: 4,881 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    tomtontom wrote: »
    How is the lady now OP, did she seek medical help?

    I think the point some are trying to make is, if every extremely cold homeless person was taken to A&E they would be overrun and it would essentially turn into a very expensive hostel. Unless the lady was showing extreme signs of distress, difficulty breathing etc (and she wouldn't be eating and drinking if she was), A&E would not be the right place for her.



    I'm on about people who are potentially suffering from Hypothermia and their right to access emergency care at A&E without going round the houses. Most people don't know they are seriously ill until they go to hospital, I try to avoid hospital but would most probably of been dead now if everyone thought my stroke was just another one of my migraines or just called an ambulance instead of bundling me into the car and straight to A&E....

    The op obviously at one point thought the person in question potentially had hypothermia and I'm sure would of rang 999, they may or may not of transferred them to hospital but if the op had transported that person to A&E herself it wouldn't of been wrong because it would be the correct place to be for diagnosis one way or the other.
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    If you have indeed "worked for the NHS for many years" and with specific regard to that which I highlight in red, from the training which has been compulsory within the NHS for many years you will:

    A/ know that ANY form of physical contact with another person may leave you liable to legal action.
    B/ know that unlike television drama you CAN NOT simply take another person anywhere yourself without their express agreement.
    C/ understand that in order to best protect yourself AND the "other person", you MUST dial 999 and request (in your scenario) an ambulance.
    D/ know better than you have written above.

    Before you question, yes I AM in a position to be certain of this.


    Me too, shame that even former employees don't seem to have a basic grasp that A&E is Accident and Emergency NOT Anything and Everything.
  • Poppie68
    Poppie68 Posts: 4,881 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    If you have indeed "worked for the NHS for many years" and with specific regard to that which I highlight in red, from the training which has been compulsory within the NHS for many years you will:

    A/ know that ANY form of physical contact with another person may leave you liable to legal action.
    B/ know that unlike television drama you CAN NOT simply take another person anywhere yourself without their express agreement.
    C/ understand that in order to best protect yourself AND the "other person", you MUST dial 999 and request (in your scenario) an ambulance.
    D/ know better than you have written above.

    Before you question, yes I AM in a position to be certain of this.



    Well I'm certainly not lying about working for the NHS, but in a clerical role we wouldn't be expected to put our hands on a patient anyway, I can safely say myself or colleagues we're subjected to the above training.
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    Poppie68 wrote: »
    I'm on about people who are potentially suffering from Hypothermia and their right to access emergency care at A&E without going round the houses. Most people don't know they are seriously ill until they go to hospital, I try to avoid hospital but would most probably of been dead now if everyone thought my stroke was just another one of my migraines or just called an ambulance instead of bundling me into the car and straight to A&E.... - OMG you are advocating people risking sitting in traffic and preventing treatment to a person instead of calling an ambulance. ANYONE who has worked in the NHS knows treatment begins when the ambulance arrives, not when you get to A&E. The paramedic ensures A&E is ready for the patient!

    The op obviously at one point thought the person in question potentially had hypothermia and I'm sure would of rang 999, they may or may not of transferred them to hospital but if the op had transported that person to A&E herself it wouldn't of been wrong because it would be the correct place to be for diagnosis one way or the other.



    The advice you give is quite shocking (and the attitude is a significant part of why the system is over stretched)
  • RuthnJasper
    RuthnJasper Posts: 4,032 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Why has this thread become so volatile and abusive? The OP made a rational post and other people have tried to pass relevant comment.


    Some of the posts, in particular those directed at Poppie68, seem so full of hate and vitriol.


    It is possible to make comments without being unpleasant.
  • Guest101
    Guest101 Posts: 15,764 Forumite
    Why has this thread become so volatile and abusive? The OP made a rational post and other people have tried to pass relevant comment.


    Some of the posts, in particular those directed at Poppie68, seem so full of hate and vitriol.


    It is possible to make comments without being unpleasant.

    I don't think there's anything volatile or abusive about posters disagreeing and backing up their points of view.


    If you are offended by these posts, then that is your right, to be offended. But it doesn't have any bearing beyond that. For my part I don't 'hate' Poppie in the slightest. Healthy debate is always welcome in my book.


    Or in this case debate about health.


    It is possible, but being 'unpleasant', as well as 'offensive' and so forth, are all subjective.
  • GwylimT
    GwylimT Posts: 6,530 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    If someone is spending significant periods in areas twelve degree celcius and below without well insulated clothing they are at high risk of hypothermia. At this tims of a year a rough sleeper is most definitely at high risk and should be encouraged to seek medical attention. If not suffering from hypothermia but cold (temps below 15) the person needs to be warmed to prevent damage to organs, extremeties and to ensure enzymes are able to function.
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