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stockmarkets -are we nearing the bottom or is there further to go ??
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Call it what you like - the current Parliamentary arithmetic gives the DUP power out of all proportion to their size. Which means they are calling the tune at the expense of the rest of the United Kingdom.I don't see how you can call it blackmail.....“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” --Upton Sinclair0 -
Glen_Clark wrote: »Call it what you like - the current Parliamentary arithmetic gives the DUP power out of all proportion to their size. Which means they are calling the tune at the expense of the rest of the United Kingdom.
I think their position is pretty clear and you can't blame them for their red lines. The whole point of their existence is to maintain NI as part of the UK.
When it comes to voting for the "deal" I'd say its Labour who have the power. The deal doesn't seem too far out from their vision of Brexit so really they should vote it through rather than play party politics.0 -
The problem is that Labour don't really have any vision of Brexit other than it'd be better if they were in charge.....they'd have negotiated a better deal......in fact their deal would pass their own six tests of course, including giving us benefits at least as good as our current customs union and single market membership.....Mr Starmer said so.....;) (despite the EU understandably saying "no chance").I think their position is pretty clear and you can't blame them for their red lines. The whole point of their existence is to maintain NI as part of the UK.
When it comes to voting for the "deal" I'd say its Labour who have the power. The deal doesn't seem too far out from their vision of Brexit so really they should vote it through rather than play party politics.
Personally I would rather leave with no deal (or rather WTO terms) than accept Mrs May's deal......in fact I think I'd rather stay in the EU than accept Mrs May's deal.....though I'm now beginning to suspect that's been Mrs May and Mr Robbins' plan all along.....0 -
The problem is that Labour don't really have any vision of Brexit other than it'd be better if they were in charge.....they'd have negotiated a better deal......in fact their deal would pass their own six tests of course, including giving us benefits at least as good as our current customs union and single market membership.....Mr Starmer said so.....;) (despite the EU understandably saying "no chance").
Yeah that's my point really. Their 6 tests are impossible for any Brexit deal to pass. Labours vision for Brexit is as wishy washy as the Tories, they want to respect the will of the people, but refuse to take responsibility for the implications of that.Personally I would rather leave with no deal (or rather WTO terms) than accept Mrs May's deal......in fact I think I'd rather stay in the EU than accept Mrs May's deal.....though I'm now beginning to suspect that's been Mrs May and Mr Robbins' plan all along.....
No easy way out of this. All 3 options are massively problematic.
May's deal and no deal are both terrible. Staying in is a betrayal of democracy.0 -
No easy way out of this. All 3 options are massively problematic.
May's deal and no deal are both terrible. Staying in is a betrayal of democracy.
The referendum was held on weak information. Why would you consider staying in a betrayel of democracy?
I am no fan of referenda on complex legal constructs, however, whould you consider holding another referendum (People's Vote) a betrayel, too?0 -
The referendum was held on weak information. Why would you consider staying in a betrayel of democracy?
I am no fan of referenda on complex legal constructs, however, whould you consider holding another referendum (People's Vote) a betrayel, too?
Because information is always going to be weak due to a) nobody knowing and b) having agendas in choosing what information to feed and how.The word "dilemma" comes from Greek where "di" means two and "lemma" means premise. Refers usually to difficult choice between two undesirable options.
Often people seem to use this word mistakenly where "quandary" would fit better.0 -
The referendum was held on weak information. Why would you consider staying in a betrayel of democracy?
I am no fan of referenda on complex legal constructs, however, whould you consider holding another referendum (People's Vote) a betrayel, too?
The problem with a 2nd referendum is that it too would be fought with half truths, misinformation and lies, from both sides, just like the first one.
The reality is that we will never really know exactly what we are voting for as nobody knows what the final arrangements would be.......even now, all the draft agreement does is outline the terms, cost and mechanisms for the UK's withdrawal, coupled with a vague declaration on the future relationship.....no detail and nothing concrete either way.0 -
Because information is always going to be weak due to a) nobody knowing and b) having agendas in choosing what information to feed and how.
"Don't let the perfect get in the way of the good" springs to mind here - there will always be agendas at play, but I'd argue that the current levels of information and knowledge are way higher than they were in the first half of 2016, regarding what are and aren't likely to be realistic outcomes and what their costs and consequences are, as opposed to all the speculative scaremongering and idealising that went before the original referendum....The problem with a 2nd referendum is that it too would be fought with half truths, misinformation and lies, from both sides, just like the first one.
The reality is that we will never really know exactly what we are voting for as nobody knows what the final arrangements would be.......even now, all the draft agreement does is outline the terms, cost and mechanisms for the UK's withdrawal, coupled with a vague declaration on the future relationship.....no detail and nothing concrete either way.0 -
Personally I would rather leave with no deal (or rather WTO terms) than accept Mrs May's deal......in fact I think I'd rather stay in the EU than accept Mrs May's deal.....though I'm now beginning to suspect that's been Mrs May and Mr Robbins' plan all along.....
May has a public duty to try and achieve a deal. If Parliament collectively rejects it then so be it. In such an instance there would be a clear message sent. May can slip back into the shadows with her credibility intact. Too easy to simply walk away because the going gets tough.0 -
Personally I would rather leave with no deal (or rather WTO terms) than accept Mrs May's deal......in fact I think I'd rather stay in the EU than accept Mrs May's deal.....though I'm now beginning to suspect that's been Mrs May and Mr Robbins' plan all along.....
I am very surprised that a poster using these forums, (I assume you have or had shares) would think leaving without a deal would be acceptable.MILAN/LONDON (Reuters) - The London Stock Exchange (LSE.L) will move its European government bond trading from London to Italy before Britain’s exit from the European Union next March, it said on Monday.This week it emerged that Deutsche Bank, Germany’s largest bank, has moved the clearing of a large chunk of euro-denominated derivatives trades from London to Frankfurt, in a boost to the LSE’s rival Deutsche Börse.0
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