Peugeot 206 - is a new engine the only answer?

anotherhugefan

Hi,

Would be really grateful for any advice re my 2007 1.4 Petrol, 60K. Is a new engine the only answer?!

Will try and keep it brief...(might not succeed)

About 18m ago - emission control warning light came on. Took to a garage (near where I was living at time) - ran diagnostics - replaced lambda sensor and advised against using cheap supermarket fuel! Light on again about a month alter - took back to same garage who checked it again and advised all ok.

No further problems

July 2015 - had annual service /MOT (at local garage that OH uses), no significant issues.

Sept 2015 - engine noise, loss of power, oil warning and STOP light coming on intermittently. Drove back home and took to local garage. Cat completely destroyed and needed replacing. Oil refilled.

OK for about a month. Oil warning light then appeared again intermittently. Checked oil - completely dry on dipstick. No sign of oil loss on driveway or lots of exhaust fumes. Returned to local garage.

Nov 2015 - garage did some investigations (from my notes, so may not be 100% accurate!), they did the following:

Compression test - all (plugs?) even but were all slightly low

No external leaks on head gasket

Coolant chamber - a little bit of oily residue so some may be leaking into it?

Blue test - went slightly green - indicating possible problem with head gasket?

Conclusion: car losing oil internally but not possible to identify location without full engine dismantle (e.g. to check piston rings and cylinder head), which is very costly. Suggest second hand engine replacement (approx. £1000) but no guarantees/warranty. Reconditioned engine replacement - more than value of car.

Since then, I have mostly used OH's car as not sure if I'm doing more damage; but have put 4 doses of Redex in and checked/topped up oil regularly, but it is clearly using far too much (5litres in approx. 2months).

Any thoughts on what might be going on, or further investigations? Is it worth getting a second opinion?

Don't have means to replace, but don't want to spend out on investigating/repair if this really is the end of the road!

Many thanks in advance

forgotmyname

It cannot lose oil internally, Its either mixing with the wate which will ne noticeable or its leaking or its burning it.

compression test wont show worn or sticky oil control rings.

When the oil light comes on even a slight flicker that means you have too little or no oil pressure to protect the engine.
You need to be checking it more often.

If its bad then daily checks even...

WellKnownSid

anotherhugefan wrote: »

Since then, I have mostly used OH's car as not sure if I'm doing more damage; but have put 4 doses of Redex in and checked/topped up oil regularly, but it is clearly using far too much (5litres in approx. 2months).

Most likely burning it due to running low on oil / low oil pressure / damage to cylinder walls / rings / etc, and hence the destroyed cat. Head gasket could have gone as a consequence, rather than be the cause - or not. Sometimes the state of the plugs can give clues.

How far is 2 months in miles? If it's 5,000 miles then that's not too bad. If it's 500 then you have a serious problem...

bigjl

Further to the comments from forgotmyname a compression test could indicate valve problems, and I think bore wash due to over fueling but it has been a long time since I ran a garage.

Sad to say that your car is not worth that much even with no faults.

The little 1.4 engine is pretty solid though and yours is the same age as my Berlingo (same 1.4 petrol engine), there are lots around in breakers yards, but having to pay to get it fixed increases costs.

They have little common faults like oil leaks from the Head Gasket, you can see the engine is a little wet at the front either side of the exhaust.

I'm afraid I would get rid, sell it with an honest advert perhaps on eBay a keen home mechanic might be happy to buy it as a project, the engine is simple to strip down compared to more modern engines, the 1.4 has been in production for years.

You could also simply trade it in, it is of an age that it is likely to be sent to auction anyway. If it runs without loads of smoke then you will get something back.

But I can't really advise spending money on it, you will just never get that money back.

bigjl

forgotmyname wrote: »

It cannot lose oil internally, Its either mixing with the wate which will ne noticeable or its leaking or its burning it.

compression test wont show worn or sticky oil control rings.

When the oil light comes on even a slight flicker that means you have too little or no oil pressure to protect the engine.
You need to be checking it more often.

If its bad then daily checks even...

Do you think chucking in something like MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) could help if the problem is something like oil control rings?

It might be a shot in the dark but if the car is on its last legs then why not!

The trouble with Cat Convertor equipped cars is they might not smoke as much as you would expect but are indeed burning oil.

I wonder if the emission control problem was actually caused by oil? Lands sensors and Cats could easily become blocked I suspect.

But if it gives the OP a few extra weeks to get the car gone it might help.

Edit:- Actually Sid has considered the same possibility, oil consumption causing issues with the emissions system.

forgotmyname

I think its a all or nothing approach for a car with gummed up or worn oil control rings. A compression test wont tell you if they are good.

Bit if the engine is spotless and no leaks then i would put lots of money on it being the rings.

Get the pistons all fairly level in the bores, take the plugs out and pour diesel into the plug holes, take the battery off and give it a good charge.

If the engine is REALLY bad and its ready for the scrappers then fill the entire engine with diesel... Yes i really did say that, open the oil cap and fill it to the top..... with diesel.

I have unseized engines using that method.

leave to stand for a day or 2 and drain it out, leave the spark plugs out
and drain the plug holes with some thin tube etc.

Put some cheap oil in, anything.. Preferably diesel oil because it contains more
detergents. Crank the engine over with the plugs still out and some rag over the holes.

When your sure the chambers are free of diesel, double check the oil level and refit the plugs and start the car... Just let it tickover and get warm.
leave it running for a while dont rev it or drive it.

Drain and repeat. If the oil is clean then put the correct oil in there.. Fingers crossed its freed the oil control rings off.

Obviously if they are worn then the above task will do nothing.

Or you could strip the engine and fit new rings.

Controversial, probably but a last resort...

arcon5

The only thing intermittent here is how often you check your oil. Most cars burn some

anotherhugefan

WellKnownSid wrote: »

Most likely burning it due to running low on oil / low oil pressure / damage to cylinder walls / rings / etc, and hence the destroyed cat. Head gasket could have gone as a consequence, rather than be the cause - or not. Sometimes the state of the plugs can give clues.

How far is 2 months in miles? If it's 5,000 miles then that's not too bad. If it's 500 then you have a serious problem...

Hi all and a big thanks for your thoughts. Doesn't sound great?!
My car tech knowledge is pretty limited (though I do try! and I do check oil regularly - just not soon after it's had a service

wellknownsid - I probably average about 1200 miles a month at mo, but not done that many in the last couple, as used OH's car a bit.

It had some MMO (or equivalent) as friend of dad's suggested it might be the oil control rings and was worth a go. That was at Xmas, so I'm assuming you'd hope to see some improvement by now?

A couple of follow-ups and apologies if a dumb Qs, but if it's burning excessive oil internally, then is that going to damage Cat again? If not, can I just keep driving and topping up oil for the time being or is that just asking for trouble??!

Cheers

WellKnownSid

Funnily enough I was having a discussion about snake oil additives with my mechanic last week. He had a rep from one company ask him to try out their engine flush many years ago. The mechanic provided the donor cars and they compared all the top brands (Slick, Forte, etc) against this product.

Result was an improvement in compression plus reduced oil consumption for all cars. No product was better - they all worked the same, which I guess was the point - the rep was after selling a cheaper alternative.

But, they're not magic. If your rings are just a bit gummed, it'll help - if you've broken a ring (and probably scored a cylinder) or similar - then it'll be new engine time.

Yes - short answer is the cat will be damaged if the oil consumption is really excessive - but plenty of cars will happily burn a litre of oil every 1000 miles or so. It sounds like you're somewhat above that..?

EdGasket

Before you throw the engine and/or car away you could try some Ametech restore:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ametech-Restore-Engine-Restorer-Lubricant/dp/B005BCB0DS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454360557&sr=8-2&keywords=ametech+restore

Gets 4* from 17 reviews.

anotherhugefan

EdGasket wrote: »

Before you throw the engine and/or car away you could try some Ametech restore:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ametech-Restore-Engine-Restorer-Lubricant/dp/B005BCB0DS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454360557&sr=8-2&keywords=ametech+restore

Gets 4* from 17 reviews.

Thanks for the suggestion - Looks like it might be worth a go but as wellknownsid's highlighted, I guess it depends on how gummed up the rings might be!