PCN advise please

Matt1234567890

Hi,


I have received a PCN from Civil Enforcement regarding a shopping visit for DFS in Hove. I was apparently in Goldstone Retail Park for 3 hours 14 minutes although there is a maximum of 3 hours free parking. I have therefore been invoiced £100 (reduced to £60 in 14 days).
I do not plan on ignoring it nor really on paying it for a couple of reasons, but would like advice on how I should proceed from anyone with experience in these matters.

I went to Goldstone Retail Park to purchase a new sofa. Not a small purchase nor one I thought I should rush. My family and I went to DFS and tried many sofas before waiting (this was in between Christmas and new year so the shop was busy) for an attendant to help us with the shortlist and options. After getting it down to two sofas and seeing as it was lunch time (the kids were complaining of hunger) I took my family to Burger King, also in Goldstone Retail Park, for some lunch and to discuss our decision. We then went back to DFS and ordered the sofa, after one final colour choice was made. In total I spent in excess of £2000 in DFS and more than £20 in BK. We then returned to the car and vacated the parking space having, in no way that I can see, abused the car park using it solely to make purchases in establishments within the retail park.
The second reason is that once vacating the parking space we proceeded to queue for nearly 20 minutes to get out of the car park due to the number of cars entering and trying to exit the retail park, as there was no PCN on the car and just a postal PCN issues I assume that ANPR was used and if so probably at the entrance/exit which would mean I was actually parked for less than 3 hours and I don't feel I should have to pay £7/minute to queue to exit the car park just because of it's bad design.

So my questions.
Should I write a friendly letter to Civil Enforcement explaining the two above points with evidence of purchases (I can, of course use terms like 'the driver' and 'the drivers family' etc.) to see if they will be reasonable? Or should I use the normal sort of template as described in the sticky thread in this forum?


Should I try and put pressure on DFS to resolve this issue for me as I was in their store purchasing items that take time and if their landlord will not provide their customers with the correct time to make a purchase they should sort that out with the landlord internally?


On the front page of Civil Enforcement's website is the following

---quote---
Is my Parking Ticket Enforceable?

On 4th November 2015 the UK Supreme Court removed any doubts over the legality and enforceability of Parking Charge Notices issued for parking on private land.
---end-quote---
(there are 2 links but as a new user I cant post them here)


Does anyone know anything about this, does this change things regarding what to do and the advice in the sticky on this forum?


Finally, and a probably long shot that isn't worth bringing up, should I bring up this point?
Although I don't doubt there are signs at Goldstone Retail Park I was not aware of the free parking being limited to 3 hours, I do feel that the signs were obviously not clear enough when entering the car park during busy times as I am not normally an un-observant person but was having to concentrate on the other cars trying to enter and exit the car park along with the pedestrians (including the children rushing around to get into Toys 'R' Us in the same retail park).


Thanks for any advice, and if anyone has any experience of Civil Enforcement have they been known to be a reasonable company or are they just out to get us any way possible?

Quentin

Forget their threatening information regarding the supreme court. Read up on Barry Beavis if you want to learn more.


But first read up in the newbies faq thread about what to do about appealing the charge

Fruitcake

Read the Sticky thread for NEWBIES and use the appropriate template letter to the parking company. There is a lot of info so you will need to sit down with a cuppa and go through it several times. CEL are with the BPA so it is the BPA appeal template in blue that you want to use.


In addition, complain to the landowner/store manager and ask them to get the ticket cancelled, but don't rely completely on this.


Don't miss the appeal deadline, don't reveal who was driving, don't pay, don't ignore. Well done on already working out some of that anyway.

Ralph-y

follow the advice above

and ....

at the same time go back to DFS and tell them you want to cancel / return the sofa as it is now to expensive

and

tell burger king that you will in future starve rather than pay such a high price for eating ........


good luck

Ralph

Coupon-mad

Goldstone Retail Park

Seagulls!

Ask if you want more advice but this is easy to beat at POPLA if you follow our script (see the NEWBIES thread).

The retailers there should be able to cancel the drivel anyway.

tincombe

I assume when you say that you were in the car park for 3 hours and 14 minutes, this is the elapsed period between 2 photos embedded in a parking charge notice which you have received by post?
What do the signs in the retail park state - max 3 hours within the 4 walls or max. 3 hours' parking? Did you have to obtain a ticket of any description?

Matt1234567890

That's my assumption too. No pictures provided with that PCN. It is a trek to get to the car park to check the signs but the PCN says 'maximum 3 hour free parking' is what is on the signs. There.was no ticket for the car park.

Coupon-mad

Matt1234567890 wrote: »

That's my assumption too. No pictures provided with that PCN. It is a trek to get to the car park to check the signs but the PCN says 'maximum 3 hour free parking' is what is on the signs. There.was no ticket for the car park.

I passed that car park last week because a relative lives not far away and we went down Newtown Road (the Goldstone old stadium site brings back memories for me so I always look at it when I pass it). I know what the signs say and can tell you that you will win this if you follow the script. Do not write a 'letter' to CEL as long as you can appeal to them by email or online (which I think you can). DO NOT imply who was driving, so not 'me/myself/I' not 'my order was £2000'!!

Use the example in the NEWBIES thread and add that 'the occupants of the car were trying out sofas in DFS and also had lunch. I attach a copy of the order made from DFS after the visit, which shows £2000 was spent. As a family, we have complained to DFS of course about your unwarranted demand. I also note that you chose to issue a non-POFA-compliant Notice to Keeper and will draw the omissions to the attention of the POPLA Assessor if you do not cancel this oppressive charge at this stage.'

Come back at POPLA stage or to tell us DFS or CEL have cancelled it due to the complaint you are making to DFS.

Matt1234567890

Thank you. I will follow.the script. I will also formally complain to DFS although I expect they are as much a victim as me.
This POFA thing is interesting. Is it still correct that the PCN needs to be issued in 14 days to be POFA compliant? It wasn't issued for 21 days and didn't reach the keeper until a couple of days after that. Not sure what relevance that has but anything might help I guess if it gets to court.

Coupon-mad

Very relevant for POPLA stage and it's the reason why you appeal as keeper, not driver.

Guys_Dad

Matt1234567890 wrote: »

Thank you. I will follow.the script. I will also formally complain to DFS although I expect they are as much a victim as me.
This POFA thing is interesting. Is it still correct that the PCN needs to be issued in 14 days to be POFA compliant? It wasn't issued for 21 days and didn't reach the keeper until a couple of days after that. Not sure what relevance that has but anything might help I guess if it gets to court.

If DFS are likely to lose a £2000 sale, then they will do something. If they won't help you with something that costs them nothing to do, what do you think they will do if anything is wrong with the sofa?