A hole in BT broadband T&Cs?

[Deleted User]

No point trying to argue this is a "hidden" charge, it's clearly in the Terms and Conditions no matter what you downloaded...

Estelle77

pc1271 wrote: »

But you then end up paying for an extra month of service that you don't want. I'm in the same position now. I want to dance BT TV, but they said I can't give notice to cancel, I have to wait until 8th Feb when my contract actually ends then call them, where they'll presumably insist that It's 30 days notice.

You can too contact ombudsman. We should be given some 'buffer' period of time when you can leave without these stupid charges as the energy companies have it. The more of us will pester with this, the higher the chance it will be forced on the companies. I am happy to pay those few ££ for the day I have or have not used, but I refuse to pay this hub charge.

And no, it was NOT in the T&Cs I was initially given. This is an important information that was supposed to be highlighted among other things, not being left out from the document and me expected to seek it elsewhere.

mije1983

Estelle77 wrote: »

I am happy to pay those few ££ for the day I have or have not used, but I refuse to pay this hub charge.

So put in the transfer request 14 days before your minimum term ends. That will start the 30 day notice period and by the time you switch you will have fulfilled the intial 12 months. If your switch happens on the 14th day or later, you won't pay the hub charge. Pretty straightforward.

Estelle77 wrote: »

And no, it was NOT in the T&Cs I was initially given.

It appears unfortunate that BT seem to have not given you the same Ts&Cs they supply to their other customers. I'm taking it you did read the linked terms before you completed the order online initially?

Ian011

Estelle77 wrote: »

it is on the page 55 of their residential T&Cs.

Page 55? Ridiculous. Some novels are shorter than that!

[Deleted User]

Ian011 wrote: »

Page 55? Ridiculous. Some novels are shorter than that!

The relevant point is that the confirmation E-Mail draws the customer's attention to this clause of the T&Cs-so it doesn't matter what page it's on..

mije1983

Ian011 wrote: »

Page 55? Ridiculous. Some novels are shorter than that!

The guide itself is actually 118 pages long. However, it's not all Ts&Cs. The majority of it is lists of countries for international calls for different plans, pricing for phone calls on all plans, terms from old legacy plans, costs from old legacy plans, operator short codes, costs of optional extras etc.

It covers all of their offerings. So while some providers have the terms in different places, BT have decided to put phone, broadband, TV and mobile all together in one place.

I'd guess that most people wouldn't have need for a lot of it, but if BT offer a service, they have to list prices and information about it somewhere.

Estelle77

mije1983 wrote: »

It appears unfortunate that BT seem to have not given you the same Ts&Cs they supply to their other customers. I'm taking it you did read the linked terms before you completed the order online initially?

In that 8 pages 'Legal stuff' , aka T&Cs document, there were links to other documents, one of which was the Tariff Guide. I did not read that because I knew my tariff. I did not need (I thought) additional guide. I paid line rental a year ahead and then just monthly charge for the broadband. My hub was FREE of charge. I knew the conditions if I have decided to cancel in the cooling off period, which were part of that 8 page document but that was not relevant to me. Nor was the cancellation of direct debit. That would lead to nowhere. Don't you think that this document could/should mention charges for the hub if I leave before exactly 12 months have passed? I consider it quite an important detail to be highlighted at least in the welcome e-mail or in this document. At least a mention about any hub charge. There was none.

I still call it a hidden charge.

This is the 8 pages document I am talking about
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/index.html

There you are advised to read the early termination charges, which, when typing the link manually (from pdf not so easy copied and pasted), as https://www.bt.com/earlytermination will forward you here:
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/contracts-early-termination.html

There you click on Residential Standard Terms, it kicks you back to the first document.

Did you see anywhere a mention about paying for the hub? Later in the T&Cs (in Paying for the service) they mention payment for the equipment, but my hub was said to be free for me! What charges? The document is inconsistent.

In the clause Ending the service they mention the Tariff Guide again, but that was in relation to cancelling direct debit, which was not relevant to me as I did not intend to do that. No equipment charge mentioned. The document really is inconsistent.

Only when you click on the Tariff Guide link and read the Broadband section (I knew my broadband charge), at the end of that section there is one paragraph about this hub charge. But from that document, on the first look, you only see:
1 Broadband options
2 Value added services for broadband
3 Broadband product we no longer sell.

Do you see any mention about paying for the hub when leaving early? Any additional charges? NO!

I knew what was my tariff. Landline paid upfront, monthly charge for unlimited broadband and a free hub. I went for these conditions based on the comparison website and that these were made clear to me. I did not study each document of the company before I signed up. What could have gone wrong with that? A reasonable person would assume that if there were early charges for the hub, they would be told upfront as it is with other services, like energy.

Again: don't you think this hub charge should be mentioned more openly and in the basic T&Cs?

System

Estelle77 wrote: »

In that 8 pages 'Legal stuff' , aka T&Cs document, there were links to other documents, one of which was the Tariff Guide. I did not read that because I knew my tariff. I did not need (I thought) additional guide. I paid line rental a year ahead and then just monthly charge for the broadband. My hub was FREE of charge. I knew the conditions if I have decided to cancel in the cooling off period, which were part of that 8 page document but that was not relevant to me. Nor was the cancellation of direct debit. That would lead to nowhere. Don't you think that this document could/should mention charges for the hub if I leave before exactly 12 months have passed? I consider it quite an important detail to be highlighted at least in the welcome e-mail or in this document. At least a mention about any hub charge. There was none.

I still call it a hidden charge.

This is the 8 pages document I am talking about
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/index.html

There you are advised to read the early termination charges, which, when typing the link manually (from pdf not so easy copied and pasted), as www.bt.com/earlytermination will forward you here:
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/contracts-early-termination.html

There you click on Residential Standard Terms, it kicks you back to the first document.

And if you then click on Broadband it gives you the T&Cs for that service. Paras 12 & 31 seem to be the relevant paras

mije1983

Estelle77 wrote: »

This is the 8 pages document I am talking about
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/index.html


Did you see anywhere a mention about paying for the hub?

Yes I do.

Deferred Payment for Equipment

31. In some cases we will allow you to defer payment of the full price of the equipment we supply for use with the service. If you then end the service within 12 months of BT accepting your order and you did not pay the full price of that equipment when you placed your order, then you will be liable to pay the balance – that is the price of the equipment as set out in the Tariff Guide, less any amount which you paid upfront when you placed your order, unless you end the service within the cancellation period (as detailed in paragraph 10 of the Residential Standard Terms). The deferred payment is no longer payable after you have received service for 12 months or more from the date that your order was accepted by BT.

As mentioned by !!!!!!, the link you have posted contains all the terms. You just click on the relevant one for your needs (broadband, TV, mobile etc)

Estelle77 wrote: »

Again: don't you think this hub charge should be mentioned more openly and in the basic T&Cs?

In my experience (and others it appears) they do make this clear. I received it more than once in my welcome emails. I can't comment on why you didn't, I can only go by what I have seen and received.

Estelle77

"The deferred payment is no longer payable after you have received service for 12 months or more from the date that your order was accepted by BT."

Well, I received the order confirmation e-mail on the 13 Jan 2015. That day, a year later, happened to be the day of my transfer to new provider. Still within the 14 notice day period (although I gave the notice few days before that).
It is just the BT contract started on the 19th and expired on the 18th Jan.

And there was never any mention about the price for the router in my documents (except of that on the page 57 I mentioned earlier, to which I had to click and study the relevant section). Then I had this confirmed (that the router was free) with the customer services team during our online chat and then somebody from them called me a couple of days later to confirm this. Obviously, when I demanded details of this, they did not send me the transcript and they say they have no record of this communication. I must have been writing and talking to the ghost then.