Building costs - Variations

snoopythedog

Just completed building project (large extension, bathroom and kitchen) which has been paid in full according to schedule. Builder has come back with variations to discuss. On the schedule it was stated..."First fix plumbing and sanitary ware to £500 valued fitted". Before starting the project, I asked if I buy the suite rather than use his supplier, do I get the £500 back against the total price of the job, and the answer was yes. I purchased the bathroom suite as I got a good deal elsewhere. Now the builder has come back saying fitting was not included and I will get £500 back towards his fitting cost (which he says is over £1000). He reckons I now owe him £500. Surely his schedule states that he is doing the first fix plumbing and fitting of sanitary ware and is therefore already paid for??? We did not discuss any additional costs at any point during the build.

System

did you have anyone (architect/quantity surveyor etc) taking account of the variations?
tbh I think it sounds like confusion, the £500 value on the schedule does read like it's sanitary ware so presumably the fitting should have been accounted for separately, or was the original price greater than £500?
A plumber wouldn't have priced for £500 for a bathroom including all the sanitary ware. Who produced the schedule and were all items priced individually?

snoopythedog

We had an architect do the whole design & drawings - we asked for quotes from various builders. The one we selected was based on the fact that that when questioned, "what about bathroom fitting" he replied "we do that"...what about tiles "we will do that"...I wanted a zero hassle build where I wasn't looking for and managing various tradesmen. The builder produced the schedule - a list of what was included for the price...item 4 was First fix plumbing and sanitary ware to £500 valued fitted


At the outset I stated that budget was tight and that the cost could not go over the number on the schedule. He said the whole job would be finished to a point of only needing decoration and flooring fitting. no extra cost was highlighted before or during the project, or even on request for the last scheduled payment which was paid in full, on time.


the bathroom suite cost me £1200 and the tiles, adhesive and grout were £400

MisterBaxter

What price did he actually put against that line that says "First fix plumbing and sanitaryware to £500 value fitted"?

That item would suggest that he should have priced for all of the first fix plumbing including the sanitaryware allowing a Prime Cost sum of £500 for the value of the sanitaryware itself. If the sanitaryware had come it £750 the figure would be adjusted £250 in his favour, if it had been £400 the sum would be adjusted £100 in your favour, if you bought the suite then the PC sum of £500 would just be deducted from the cost, the rest of the cost on that line should have been for the fitting and all associated fittings. If he didn't price for the whole job properly then I would say his mistake and bad luck on him.

System

Did you provide a spec of the bathroom fittings to be priced originally?
Presumably the work was subcontracted to a plumber?
Incidentally with a tight budget why did you decide to but a bathroom suite for more than double for yourself, contractors will usually get a discount on the fittings...

It's difficult because you haven't said what the price is against that item on the schedule?
Seems like you haven't employed the architect to tender or inspect works on site (or administer a contract) so its hard to establish what the proper way for dealing with variations.
Were the fittings provided similar to those on the drawings? And installed in the same positions using the same controls etc - just trying to establish whether dealing with a completely different set of fittings may have added work for the plumber - also, when did you instruct the change, at the start of the job?

teneighty

MisterBaxter wrote: »

What price did he actually put against that line that says "First fix plumbing and sanitaryware to £500 value fitted"?

That item would suggest that he should have priced for all of the first fix plumbing including the sanitaryware allowing a Prime Cost sum of £500 for the value of the sanitaryware itself. If the sanitaryware had come it £750 the figure would be adjusted £250 in his favour, if it had been £400 the sum would be adjusted £100 in your favour, if you bought the suite then the PC sum of £500 would just be deducted from the cost, the rest of the cost on that line should have been for the fitting and all associated fittings. If he didn't price for the whole job properly then I would say his mistake and bad luck on him.

+1, excellent explanation.

snoopythedog

The schedule had a list of 10 items which covered the works to be completed (for example, Item 1 - electrical installation as per drawing number XYZ). There was no cost for each item, but page 2 had a payment schedule with a grand total for the job (i.e. the list of the 10 items) at the bottom.


I didn't provide spec for bathroom, but said I was purchasing it myself (nothing fancy - £500 covered the suite, we just added a shower which was also on the drawing - the total cost of these items were much less than those in the brochures provided by the builder). All items purchase were installed in positions as per the drawing by the architect, all standard fittings The builder did the plumbing himself, no subbie.


Not sure what you mean by "instructing the change" - the builder was given the job on the basis that bathroom was required, and my understanding of the schedule is that it is confirmed in writing

MisterBaxter

the_r_sole wrote: »

Did you provide a spec of the bathroom fittings to be priced originally?
Presumably the work was subcontracted to a plumber?
Incidentally with a tight budget why did you decide to but a bathroom suite for more than double for yourself, contractors will usually get a discount on the fittings...

It's difficult because you haven't said what the price is against that item on the schedule?
Seems like you haven't employed the architect to tender or inspect works on site (or administer a contract) so its hard to establish what the proper way for dealing with variations.
Were the fittings provided similar to those on the drawings? And installed in the same positions using the same controls etc - just trying to establish whether dealing with a completely different set of fittings may have added work for the plumber - also, when did you instruct the change, at the start of the job?

As per my previous post it looks like a PC sum has been used to set a notional price for the sanitaryware so a detailed specification wouldn't be needed for pricing purposes unless the client knew that the suite they were going to use was significantly more complex than a standard suite. The fact that the actual bathroom fittings cost almost double shouldn't be relevant in this instance as the figure used for pricing purposes was only notional. Perhaps having seen the price for the whole job the OP thought they could splash out on a more expensive suite.

Installation costs could change if the actual suite bought was significantly more complex to install or if the position had changed from the plan in a way that involved more materials or a greater amount of labour but assuming it was a standard install job then the price shown in the quote should be the one charged after being properly adjusted for the PC sum.

I use PC sums a lot in commercial type works but I don't tend to use them for domestic clients as some smaller builders don't seem to understand their purpose and it leads to this sort of issue. I would rather specify the suite up front or list it as an install only cost with the suite to be supplied by others as this removes confusion. For commercial clients it is useful to use PC sums as it helps with the client's budget planning.

snoopythedog

Thanks - by belief was because a notional PC sum was in there, my task was to get as close to that as possible with the suite to keep my costs down on a tight budget.


Also, the same issue has arisen with the tiling...."Tiles to £400 value (including adhesive) laid." Tiles and adhesive we bought were exactly on budget, however, he has asked for the labour charge for installation. Again, this is a PC sum and we shouldn't have to pay extra for the work as the schedule states "laid".


At no point during the past 6 months have we been told there was any extra charge to pay

MisterBaxter

snoopythedog wrote: »

The schedule had a list of 10 items which covered the works to be completed (for example, Item 1 - electrical installation as per drawing number XYZ). There was no cost for each item, but page 2 had a payment schedule with a grand total for the job (i.e. the list of the 10 items) at the bottom.


I didn't provide spec for bathroom, but said I was purchasing it myself (nothing fancy - £500 covered the suite, we just added a shower which was also on the drawing - the total cost of these items were much less than those in the brochures provided by the builder). All items purchase were installed in positions as per the drawing by the architect, all standard fittings The builder did the plumbing himself, no subbie.


Not sure what you mean by "instructing the change" - the builder was given the job on the basis that bathroom was required, and my understanding of the schedule is that it is confirmed in writing

If you stated at the outset that you would be providing the suite then I'm not even sure why a figure for the suite was needed in the pricing schedule. That aside the builder has given you a price for installing the suite and as nothing else changed they should honour that price. If the price quoted did include £500 for the supply of the suite for some reason then that should be a deduction from the schedule. If we assume the wording of the schedule is a little ambiguous around the £500 value then the builder could argue that the £500 was part of the job and is therefore due to him but he certainly shouldn't be asking for more simply because it was a bigger job than he thought.

snoopythedog

He said he would give me a brochure to choose from, but I said that I may source my own I'd decide closer to the time when I needed to organise it. He confirmed that if I did that, I would get £500 credit back towards the total cost of the house renovation which we have been given back against some additional work that we agreed a price on (as you described, its a PC sum that I didn't spend so it was due back to me).