Father passed away, no contact

TonyMMM

LittleMissMolly wrote: »

they don't tend to get too pedantic about who registers these days. x

Candelight 2103 is correct.

Any registrar will tell you that there are very strict requirements to qualify as a person able to register a death, and that registering does not automatically make you responsible for arranging a funeral or administering the estate.

The "green form" that gives authority for the burial/cremation does not name the person responsible for the funeral - it can be passed on to someone else.

I would agree with previous comments that once the police have contacted a relative (and assuming there are no suspicious circumstances) then the case will be handed over to the coroner's office who will deal with everything.

If there is going to be an inquest, the procedures are slightly different - the coroner will issue an interim death certificate to allow the estate to be dealt with and the authority for cremation/burial. The actual registration of the death takes place (by the coroner) after the inquest takes place - which could be months later.

RAS

Frugal_gem wrote: »

Thank you.

I think if I walk away, then I walk away from everything to be honest. Even if there is money or assets. He may have a will which could clear all that up I suppose.

I will make it clear that I'm not accepting any responsibility and leave it there.

Thank you all, this has made me think sensibly rather than emotionally which I needed.

Your situation is less usual; much of the time police will be dealing with relatives who have a fairly recent relationship or who have been waiting for the long lost relative to re-appear and the relatives want to be involved.

I did not see my father for some 40 odd years before he died, although siblings had contact. I did not attend the funeral and am content with that decision. On the other hand I would not have missed the funeral of another family member for the world. And feel sniffy mentioning it.

You lost your dad a long time ago but you may also need to review your feelings about that loss. I had a relative (not a step parent) who I loved dearly and when he died in my twenties I did a lot of grieving for him and for the loss of my father.

That is not to say this has any relevance to your situation but that you may want to find some time and space to acknowledge whatever your feelings are.

LittleMissMolly_2

TonyMMM wrote: »

If there is going to be an inquest, the procedures are slightly different - the coroner will issue an interim death certificate to allow the estate to be dealt with and the authority for cremation/burial. The actual registration of the death takes place (by the coroner) after the inquest takes place - which could be months later.

That's correct ... although an awful lot of inquests are opened and closed within days of death, which leaves no need for an interim certificate and the family are able to do the actual registration themselves. This is a scenario which has really come to the fore recently thanks to the DOL issues. We are extremely lucky where I am to have a very pro-active coroner's service, who clear them within a couple of days in order to spare families from the interim certificate situation and the complications that it can cause.

getmore4less

LittleMissMolly wrote: »

When you register a death (which anyone can do, provided that they have either the 'cause of death' paperwork from the deceased's GP/ the hospital where they died, or the coroner's letter/fax of authority), it isn't only the official Death Certificate which is generated.

Alongside the record in the register of BMDs (and the actual Death Certificate), a certificate of disposal is created and given to the informant. It's a bright green, slightly smaller than A4, 'one off' certificate that cannot be duplicated or replaced and without it no legal burial or cremation can take place. However it is a legal (and public health) requirement that bodies must be disposed of in a manner prescribed by law ... so the holder of that certificate therefore becomes responsible for disposing of the body. Once it has been issued to someone, the Registrar will not un-issue it or take it back and issue it to anyone else (such as the local health authority or local council).

In the funeral profession we refer to it as the 'Dis Certificate' ... and when it is passed to us we are entering into a contract with the person doing so, to the effect that they will pay us for disposing of the deceased on their behalf. Of course no-one needs to use a Funeral Director - they can arrange and pay for a funeral directly with the cemetery or crematorium, but they will need to pay the cemetery/crem up front before the cemetery/crem will accept the Dis.

I'm an FD This stuff is my bread and butter

Not anyone can register a death there are rules laid out in legislation.

Again I ask where is the legal reference that makes the person registering the death responsible for the disposal?


I don't think possesion of the green for makes you responsible you just give it to the local authority/hospital responsible if no one including yourself wants to take that on.

Since you are so sure you must have the legal basis for this claim.

where ever it is it must be different to the Birth and Deaths registration act section 24 which has the following.

(3)A person to whom any certificate issued by the registrar under this section is delivered shall transmit it to the person effecting the disposal of the body of the deceased person. .
(4)A registrar by whom a certificate has been given under this section may, upon receiving a satisfactory explanation of any circumstances by reason of which the certificate is not available for the purposes of the enactments relating to the disposal of the bodies of dead persons, issue . . . F15 a duplicate thereof either to the person to whom the original certificate was given or to the person effecting the disposal of the body; and any such duplicate certificate shall be in a distinctive form. .
(5)Where, on the expiration of the prescribed period after the issue in respect of any deceased person of a certificate under this section or of a coroner’s order authorising the disposal of the body, no notification as to the date, place and means of disposal of the body has been received by the registrar from the person effecting its disposal, the registrar shall make enquiry of the person to whom the certificate or order was issued and it shall be the duty of that person to give information to the best of his knowledge and belief as to the person having the custody of the certificate or order, the place in which the body is lying, or, if the body has been disposed of, the person effecting the disposal



That does not make them responsible for disposal just resonsible for making sure those that are get the necessary forms.

getmore4less

LittleMissMolly wrote: »

I have had cases where there has been no family and next door neighbours (who aren't executors) have stepped forward to register and arrange a funeral I also had one where the landlord of a long term tenant stepped forward, registered and paid for the funeral for a lady who's family stepped back because there was no money. There was another only last year, where a fairly well off gentleman passed away in a hotel, whilst on holiday, and no relatives could be found - a solicitor nominated by the coroner's office registered his death and arranged his funeral.

I think the general rule is that there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to the local authority not being lumbered with the funeral costs

Normally the 'cause of death' paperwork will always be handed to the nominated next of kin, but where there aren't any relatives or executors and someone else is prepared to step forward, they don't tend to get too pedantic about who registers these days. x

All those were eligable registrations, as the bottom of the list of eligability is the person organising disposal.

(that is very different to the person registering becoming responsible)

getmore4less

LittleMissMolly wrote: »

I think the general rule is that there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to the local authority not being lumbered with the funeral costs

The Public heath act means the buck fall to the local authority, if they can't get someone else to do it they will have to.

They can(try) recover the costs from the estate and under some circumstances others that may have a duty to pay.

Estate administrators come are those with a legal duty but only if they take on the job

Parents of children have a duty under common law.

There are as I understand it potential others that may have a duty under common law to deal with disposal, which is why hospitals take over from the local authority there may be others.

Yorkshireman99

LittleMissMolly wrote: »

I'm a little confused as to why you are dealing with the police rather than the coroner's office, which is the norm in these situations?

Although the police have to be involved in terms of the initial finding of your father's body (and in tracking you down as his technical next of kin), the case will then have been passed to the coroner's office to deal with establishing the cause of death and inquest (if that is required). In the meantime your father's body will be in safekeeping at whichever hospital he was transferred to after he was found. If you step back, then it is that hospital/nhs trust who will have to arrange and pay for the funeral.

In order for them to cover as much of the costs as possible, they can sell his possessions, but they cannot come after you for any money unless you accept responsibility. Sadly the authorities are not very good at informing people in your situation that stepping back is an option, because they don't want to spend their budget on public health funeral costs. Please do not allow yourself to be bamboozled or emotionally blackmailed into taking responsibility.

However - a word of warning - if you are going to stand back (which in your shoes I most certainly would be, by the way!), you must not accept any 'cause of death' paperwork from the hospital, police or coroner's office and on no account should you be persuaded to register the death. Registration of Death carries with it a legal responsibility to dispose of the body at your expense.

That is complete nonsense! Registering the death does nothing else. Responsibility rests with the local authority if nobody else is willing to act. In the case under discussion nobody has any legal obligation though the OP may feel a moral one. If the OP is going to take on the obligation then they are going to have to pay.

Yorkshireman99

Frugal_gem wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it.

Despite saying I don't want to walk away, after reading everything and speaking to a probate solicitor friend, I think I'm going to have to.

I am due to speak to the detective tomorrow. Is it a case of saying I don't accept responding for anything and they will then hand everything over to the relevant council or whoever it is and I then don't have to do anything?

Correct! If the local authority arrange the funeral you can, if you wish, attend it.

Savvy_Sue

I know it's a bit late but you might want to practice saying aloud something like "I have not seen this man for over 30 years, and the last time was when I was three years old. I am unable to accept any responsibility for dealing with his funeral or estate."

konark

Why drop 3 grand on a funeral for someone who had no friends or family; who will turn up? Local Authority funerals are no frills but are still dignified and respectful; they just seem to get the awkward time-slots at the crematorium. You are quite at liberty to attend the LA funeral, although you might be the only one.