Premier Parking Solutions - Appeal Advice

L1ng

Just a quick update to this post - My girlfriend has had her parking ticket cancelled at first point of appeal - A copy of the reply is below

Further to your email of appeal received on 12/01/2016 regarding the above parking charge. I have now

had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are below.

Having considered the content of your letter we are prepared on this occasion, as a goodwill gesture, to

cancel this parking charge notice.

Please make sure you have a valid Premier Parking Solutions permit on display in future when parking on

site.

However, please be aware that future correctly issued parking charge notices will not be cancelled.

Good result! Wasn't expecting them to cancel it to be honest - I'm guessing the "good will gesture" is the fact they don't have a leg to stand on! But fair play to them.

I wish everyone luck on their appeals and thank you everyone for your responses to this thread!

Coupon-mad

Well done - most unusual for PPS who are not considered to be a nice firm at all, rarely cancel and will be waiting to penalise her again.

She SHOULD NOT park there. She should ask her employer to get it in writing from the managing agents of the site, stating specifically that care workers with permits visiting residents can park there without penalty, before she returns, not just believe her employer - unless they undertake to refund her if ever she is caused loss as a result of them telling her 'it's OK'.

pulpotim1960

Hi MSE,
I'm a newbie here and am uncertain whether to start a new thread or post to this one - as my wife and I have also fallen fowl of Premier Parking Solutions (PPS).

I've read around this forum and various other sites regarding parking charges from private companies and I'm a tad confused as to where I stand and how best to proceed - or not - as the case may be. Therefore, any guidance from members with knowledge and experience in this field would be much appreciated.

In a nutshell, the camera clocked our arrival at the car park at 10:24:43 AM and our departure at 12:29:04 AM. Therefore, by my calculation, we exceeded the limit of the two hour ticket by a mere 4 minutes and 21 seconds!

I've yet to confirm this, but I don't recall seeing anything in the T&Cs on the display board stating that the permitted duration of stay begins and ends with the time clocked on the camera. The point being that the arrival time stamped on the ticket will have been after 10:24:43 AM and the time we vacated the parking bay will have been (very slightly) before 12:29:04 AM. In other words, it's entirely possible that the car was only parked in an allocated bay for the duration of the ticket and that the extra time was spent putting on coats, queuing at the ticket machine, getting the ticket and returning to the car etc. Even if there is something to the above effect in PPS's T&Cs, I feel that a £100 charge (reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days) is excessive.

There appears to be very little concerning what is reasonable or unreasonable in terms of charges for alleged breaches of 'parking regulations'. Whilst I feel that £60 is unacceptable for transgression of 4 minutes, I'm aware of the recent high court case in which the appellant (Beavis?) lost his case. Is it worth appealing, or should I just pay up and chalk this up to experience?

Thanks for your help!

pappa_golf

yes it is called "grace period" , check those words out on this forum and others , in the case of PPS they are a BPA member and should adhere to the terms they signed.


contact the BPA and ask them "if" a grace period exists on this car park , add that the overstay by ANPR was 4 mins and ask for "advice"


[EMAIL="info@britishparking.co.uk"]info@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] is a good place to start

Ralph-y

also please read the newbie thread if have not already done so ....

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

and you will best advised to start your own thread ......

this to stop confusion between different posters , even if the details are similar ...

the new thread button can be found on the forum landing page

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163&order=desc

and is tip left

good luck

Ralph:cool:

Coupon-mad

Start your own thread once you are at POPLA stage. Yes it IS worth appealing. I've never lost one - the forum has only rarely lost one - and even at 'new POPLA' there are some winning appeal points.

First appeal stage is already done & dusted from the NEWBIES sticky thread and really needs no further discussion.

pulpotim1960

Thank you pappa golf, Ralph-y and Coupon-mad for your helpful feedback.
I've checked the BPA’s Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice to see what it says about grace periods. Under section 13 entitled ‘Grace Periods’, it states:

“13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

I've e-mailed the BPA for their comments as this appears to be pretty black and white to me. Unless they tell me that I've somehow managed to get the wrong end of the stick - I'll definitely appeal. I'll let the forum know how I get on and post any relevant documentation for the benefit of future members who find themselves in a similar situation. Sadly, I'm sure I won't be the last one! As it happens, I've had two PCNs from this outfit in the past and won both appeals, so my natural inclination is to stick with it.

I'll take Coupon-mad's advice and continue to post to this thread for the time being. If anyone from Admin' or the Mod team are reading this and feel this is inappropriate - please start a new thread on my behalf.

Coupon-mad

Unless they tell me that I've somehow managed to get the wrong end of the stick - I'll definitely appeal.

No, appeal anyway. The BPA are on the dark side and might well spin you some twaddle.

pulpotim1960

Hi all,

The BPA replied to my enquiry and advised me to appeal - but made clear that they couldn't get involved in disputes between motorists and parking firms. That's to be expected, although they did add this comment: "For any tickets issued after 1st October 2015, our Members must provide a grace period of a minimum of 10 minutes after a period of parking." Consequently, I've submitted my appeal which I've copied below.PPs have acknowledged receipt, so now it's a case of waiting to see what happens.

Dear Premier Parking Solutions (PPS),
Ref: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) No. (details removed)
I am writing to appeal against the above PCN. The details you require are as follows:
Name:(details removed)
Postal Address:(details removed)
Vehicle Registration No:(details removed)
Vehicle Make:(details removed)
Place of (alleged) Contravention: Fore Street, Totnes, Devon
Issue Reason: Unauthorised Parking
Date of Issue: 09/01/2016
Date of PCN Letter: 14/01/2016

I have four reasons for appealing against the PCN:



1. Unjustifiable Charge
The PCN states that my vehicle “. . . remained at the location for longer than permitted. . .” The Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system time stamped my vehicle entering the car park at 10:24:43 AM and departing at 12:29:04 PM. I purchased a 2 hour ticket and so, according to these times, I exceeded the stay period by a mere 4 minutes 21 seconds! The £100 penalty imposed (reduced to £60 if paid by 28/01/2016) equates to a charge of £0.38p for each second that I outstayed my welcome! By any measure, this is excessive and cannot possibly be based upon commercially justifiable loss to either PPS or the landowner. However, this is a moot point, as I will now provide evidence to demonstrate that PPS should not have issued me with the PCN in the first place.



2. Inadequate Signage
The composite image above (not posted here) shows the signage at the car park in question. Although it makes clear that ANPR is in operation, nowhere does it say that the permitted stay period commences when a vehicle enters the car park and is time stamped by the ANPR. Equally, nowhere does it say that the permitted stay period ends when the vehicle exits the car park and is time stamped by the ANPR. If PPS issue PCNs based on ANPR time stamps, then this should be made crystal clear on the signage. The reason this is important is so that customers know they cannot rely on the times printed on their ticket, as these will always be at variance with the ANPR times. Indeed, the printed ticket times are unreliable and motorists should only use them as a rough guide for their duration of stay. None of this is made clear on the signage, rendering it woefully inadequate. This leads neatly to the next point . . .



3. Misleading Motorists
There are any number of reasons why many minutes could elapse between the time a motorist drives into the car park and the time they purchase a ticket from the machine. Therefore, if the contract between PPS and its customers is based on the ANPR time stamps, then this must be made clear in the signage (see above) and,most importantly, be reflected in the times printed on the ticket. In other words, the start time of the ticket should not be the time the ticket is purchased - as is currently the case. It ought to be synchronised with the ANPR time. Otherwise, what are motorists expected to do: are they supposed to bring a stop watch with them to clock the time they enter the car park (i.e. the ANPR time) to the start time on the ticket and then deduct the difference from the printed expiry time? That’s a rhetorical question as it’s clearly ludicrous. As things stand, car park customers are being mislead into thinking that they need to vacate their parking bay (but not necessarily the car park itself) by the ticket’s expiry time.



4. Breach of the ‘Approved Operator Scheme’ Code of Practice
The three points above are more than sufficient to warrant the PCN being waived. However, this final point is reason enough by itself to require that it’s cancelled. PPS is a registered member of British Parking Association’s (BPA) ‘Approved Operator Scheme’ (AOS). You display the logo on your PCN and have utilised the privileges afforded by your membership to access my Registered Keeper details held by DVLA. As an AOS member, you have agreed to comply with the AOS Code of Practice: “. . . All members of the AOS have agreed to support and uphold the principles of the Code. To become a member, parking operators must confirm that they have systems and procedures in place to ensure compliance with the Code.” Note the emphasis.

Under section 13, the AOS Code of Practice clearly states: “13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.” Again, note the emphasis. Based solely on the ANPR time stamps (as opposed to the times printed on the ticket which are different), I exceeded the permitted stay period by a maximum of 4 minutes 21 seconds; well short of the 10 minute Grace Period laid down in the AOS Code of Practice. As well as being in breach of the code, the fact that I have been issued with a PCN at all indicates the systems and procedures that PPS supposedly have in place to ensure compliance with the code are either faulty or are not being upheld.


For the reasons detailed above, please confirm in writing that you have cancelled the PCN.

Yours sincerely,

(details removed)
PS. Hard copy sent via snail mail.

catfunt

As previously advised - you need to start your own thread and post your draft appeal on there.

Perfect recipe for confusion, otherwise....