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If we vote for Brexit what happens
Comments
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HornetSaver wrote: »Surprised there isn't a full blown thread on it yet.
But regardless of whether that prediction is reasonable or ridiculous, it's an odd thing for him to say.
Those leaning towards Remain are disproportionately graduates, disproportionately professionals, and disproportionately young - groups that are struggling to understand why getting that first step on the housing ladder is proving as difficult as it is. Very odd for a senior Remain figure to put out there the possibility that leaving might cool down the housing market, as I doubt the potential to swing undecided voters towards Remain is as great as the potential to nudge people in the opposite direction.
Surely that assumes Osborne understands the problems that Generation Rent face? The man is quite out of touch with working people whatever he might claim or think. It may explain his
latest prediction.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
I find this difference of opinion on the Leave side disconcerting.
why do you find differences of view disconcerning : do you really think that Corbyn and Cameron agree about the future direction if we vote 'remain' ? Do you find this disconcerning ?I agree threats are not helpful. But he may have a point. If youI belonged to your local golf club but resigned and then came along next week and said can use the club bar, what sort of reaction would you expect?
Rightly or wrongly a Brexit is going to tie up a lot of EU resources negotiating our Article 50 agreement so I can see that they might feel negative about it. It might be reflected in a hard nosed approach to a continuing trading relationship. Or they might just sort out the administrative aspects (eg residence and passports) and refuse to discuss anything else. I would hope common sense would prevail but I can see reasons why we might get a frosty response.
No, it has nothing like leaving a club.
The situation here, is that after brexit it will be in the mutual self interest of both parties to find a constructive way forward on trade.
Juncker is simply saying that he will be willing to damage the people of the EU to spite the UK i.e. deliberatly create more unemployment in the EU and damage peoples lives in the EU.
A bit like the the club chairman burning the club house down because a leaving member asks to discuss an alternative arrrangement.0 -
he partially stated the 'facts'
he should have said that the UK will be made unwelcome by the EU ruling class and so the EU will deliberately damage the economic prospects of their own ordinary people to make their political point: basically the sort of vindictive behaviour that leads to french farmers blocking the roads and ports and sometimes even to war.
The UK (both political class and ordinary people) will of course be fully willing to engage in trade in a neighbourly way as always to the benefit of all.
I guess you include yourself in the 'small minded and vindictive' category.
Well maybe they will just renew their efforts to sell some of those cars to Australia and NZ instead of us? Maybe they will not be bothered if the UK car buyer has to pay the WTO tariff to get the Merc they want?
I agree that they will not be vindictive about negotiations. They will not need to, the markets will have done that for them.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the potential president put up decided upon by elected representatives of democracies?
Absolutely correct.
You can argue that's democracy if you like but like most stuff in the EU, the people appear far removed from the decision making process.If I don't reply to your post,
you're probably on my ignore list.0 -
'Tanking' by growing between 10 and 18% less than they would otherwise have done - which means what -6% to +2% in 2 years time. It is hardly world war 3
The Chancellor is just guessing. Predicting house prices in the future is difficult enough without Brexit uncertainty. It is all guess work.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Well maybe they will just renew their efforts to sell some of those cars to Australia and NZ instead of us? Maybe they will not be bothered if the UK car buyer has to pay the WTO tariff to get the Merc they want?
I agree that they will not be vindictive about negotiations. They will not need to, the markets will have done that for them.
I don't understand what you are saying.
The EU can sell cars to Australia now : what point are you making?
We in the UK can chose to have zero tariffs on any product we like once we leave the EU, so the tariff on EU cars is up to us.
I'm glad don't think that the EU will impose tariffs on UK products and hence damage the people of the EU27 but I am somewhat surprised, after other stuff you have posted.0 -
whilst you are gradually abandoning all logic and reason, in this case you, nevertheless, make a good point
the removal of an unelected monarch is within the capablity of the voters of the UK
whilst the removal of Juncker is not.
I think that the removal of an unelected monarch would be difficult if Her Majesty dissolved Parliament and the police and armed forces did not agree with the PM's plans. Treason might also be involved.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
I think that the removal of an unelected monarch would be difficult if Her Majesty dissolved Parliament and the police and armed forces did not agree with the PM's plans. Treason might also be involved.
I'll assume it is a light hearted response whilst enjoying a beer and watching the footie0 -
Obviously, you don't agree. However, some people's desire to see the entire population of the world as a homogenous entity clearly makes them ignore the lessons of history. Humans always separate into groups and tribes, according to their interests. Communism and cultural marxism of the type advocated by Corbyn, McDonnel and Merkel (for example), will never work. In the end, people will fight for the interests of their tribes. I fear that Europe will learn this through very hard lessons. I am voting for Brexit because I would like a democratic Britain to be outside the undemocratic, dysfunctional construct that is the EU before it actually falls apart, not as it is doing so, which will make things very messy in Europe.
Those who forget their past, have no future…
…
There is some truth in this, but it all assumes we are part of a politically integrated EU. We are NOT. Our 28 Governments are sovereign, some are more content to surrender sovereignty than others but we can choose. The EU has always been a compromise in which access to a single market, freedom of movement and harmonisation of laws that we are willing to harmonize are all positives. There are negatives to balance against these, immigration to attractive areas, harmonisation you do not want, and differences of opinions (tribes if you like). This debate is really about these pros and cons and the balance between them.
To me your arguments are valid but you might as well say why belong to NATO, the UN, the WTO. For NATO, is the benefits of other nations coming to your aid if you are attacked really worth the hassel of having to assign some forces to NATO and be willing to support other members? NATO is not democratic in your terms and has a bureaucracy associated with it like the EU.Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are incapable of forming such opinions.0 -
Our elected representatives can choose from a list of 650 - that's 649 more than MEP's get to choose your President.
The nominated (and voted for twice) candidate put forward is typically drawn from the pool of EU national politicians, a much larger list than our mere 650 possibilities. Although that is not even a requirement apparently, so really the choice is completely open.
The procedure for appointment is quite simple, the people I and other people vote for come up with a candidate taking into account the parliamentary vote (democracy), vote on it (democracy), and nominate a candidate based on that vote (democracy). The nomination is then voted on again (democracy) by more people I and other people vote for (democracy) to endorse or reject the nomination (democracy). It's overflowing with democracy, and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly drunk off their own farts.If you think of it as 'us' verses 'them', then it's probably your side that are the villains.0
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