Discrimination on Boarding / Additional Travel ID

phatbear

eDicky wrote: »

But the OP was departing from Nantes, France, where, if I am not mistaken, they had already passed through immigration and had their passport controlled.

I appreciate that but regardless the airline would still be fined for allowing the passenger to fly, regardless of them passing through embarkation controls.

From re reading the op post really what happened was he was asked for another piece if id at the gate and after looking in his wallet he was able to provide it and boarded the plane. All of the other info is irrelevant as its unprovable.

shaun_from_Africa

eDicky wrote: »

But the OP was departing from Nantes, France, where, if I am not mistaken, they had already passed through immigration and had their passport controlled.

Do you go through immigration checks when departing Nantes?
Whenever I've been through CDG, my passport is only ever checked by the airline staff at check in and again at the boarding gate and the security staff sometimes look at it to confirm that it matches my boarding pass but I've never been checked by immigration staff and immigration by its very definition is people travelling into a country and not out of a country.

phatbear

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

immigration by its very definition is people travelling into a country and not out of a country.

Thats incorrect.

Immigration act 1971 sched 2 sub 3(1)

An immigration officer may examine any person who is embarking or seeking to embark in the United Kingdom F10. . .for the purpose of determining whether he is [F11a British citizen][F12and, if he is not a British citizen, for the purpose of establishing—

Etc etc

shaun_from_Africa

phatbear wrote: »

Thats incorrect.

Immigration act 1971 sched 2 sub 3(1)

But you stopped your quote too early.

An immigration officer may examine any person who is embarking or seeking to embark in the United Kingdom F10. . .for the purpose of determining whether he is [F11a British citizen][F12and, if he is not a
British citizen, for the purpose of establishing—
(a)his identity;
(b)whether he entered the United Kingdom lawfully;
(c)whether he has complied with any conditions of leave to
enter or remain in the United Kingdom;
(d)whether his return to the United Kingdom is prohibited or
restricted.

So the only reason they will check departing passengers is to see if they entered legally in the first place, or if they are allowed to return back to the UK which is why I said that immigration refers to people coming into a country.

mgdavid

phatbear wrote: »

Thats incorrect.

Immigration act 1971 sched 2 sub 3(1)

An immigration officer may examine any person who is embarking or seeking to embark in the United Kingdom F10. . .for the purpose of determining whether he is [F11a British citizen][F12and, if he is not a British citizen, for the purpose of establishing—

Etc etc

This was leaving Nantes so you need to look up the French equivalent laws and acts.... our British Border Force do not have staff stationed in Nantes and our laws do not apply there.

powerful_Rogue

Airlines have a duty to ensure passengers are travelling on a correct document with the relevant visa's if required.

Obviously the member of the staff at the gate for some reason wasnt satisfied as to whether you was traveling on a forged or counterfeit document or was an imposter so asked for additional ID.

If airlines cant show they have carried out sufficient checks then they can be fined under Carriers Liability.

If you hadnt of had any additional ID, im presuming it would have been referred to an "Airline Liaison Officer", employed by Border Force who would have confirmed or denied her suspicions.

powerful_Rogue

mgdavid wrote: »

This was leaving Nantes so you need to look up the French equivalent laws and acts.... our British Border Force do not have staff stationed in Nantes and our laws do not apply there.

Border Force have Airline Liaison Officers dotted all around the globe to assist airlines avoiding a penalty under Carriers Liability.

phatbear

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

But you stopped your quote too early.


So the only reason they will check departing passengers is to see if they entered legally in the first place, or if they are allowed to return back to the UK which is why I said that immigration refers to people coming into a country.

I didn't stop the quote to early as i didnt want to weigh my post down with more text than is necessary.

You are correct kinda but also wrong, you make the statement that "immigration refers to people coming into a country" well that isnt strictly true, but they, of course must have come into the country somehow. So the actual definition would be that Border Force, control the movements of all people entering and leaving the UK.

mgdavid wrote: »

This was leaving Nantes so you need to look up the French equivalent laws and acts.... our British Border Force do not have staff stationed in Nantes and our laws do not apply there.

And im fully aware of that, thanks, the point i was making was we do control people leaving the UK as well as entering, which related to a comment shaun had made

sheramber

however, in my opinion a boarding gate member of staff is not the qualified person to judge whether a passport is fake / require a second form of ID (especially once other forms of security have been cleared). To the best of my research, when a passport is "flagged" the member of staff should alert Border Security which then takes over and re-checks the passengers documents.

What is the pint of the gate staff checking the passport?

perhaps , if you had not had another ID they would have alerted Border Security, but since you had other ID there was no need to go that far.

AlphaQ

phatbear wrote: »

I appreciate that but regardless the airline would still be fined for allowing the passenger to fly, regardless of them passing through embarkation controls.

From re reading the op post really what happened was he was asked for another piece if id at the gate and after looking in his wallet he was able to provide it and boarded the plane. All of the other info is irrelevant as its unprovable.

I appreciate the advice, and your point of view. You are indeed correct that airlines are charged fines + return flight costs for passengers that do not have appropriate visa / documents to enter a country. Isn't part of this document check done online when travel document information is provided?

I however cannot agree with this 2nd document idea:
- If additional documents can / are required for security checks then passengers should be warned in advance and provided with a list of acceptable docs.
- If Border Security / Force deems a passport to be a valid travel document (using all their fancy equipment, computers etc) - is boarding gate staff qualified enough to second guess that judgement?

Finally, just because the other "irrelevant info cannot be proved" does not mean that inappropriate staff behavior should go unnoticed, or would you suggest that we ignore bad customer service?