Parking rights issue with neighbour

talisker1947

phoenix_w wrote: »

Have to agree that passive aggressive notes have soured things. You'd have been better off knocking on their doors at inconvenient times to ask them to move their car because you can't get your lawnmower/collection of old dishwashers through the gate. A few occasions like that and they wouldn't dare to block your access for more than a few minutes.

As previously wrote there was no passive or aggressive note. We had friendly discussions with the neighbour (from the very first day) indicating to me that he "got" the point. Plain and simple. Besides if he felt entitled to rights of parking he would not have asked for permission or move his car. He had the opportunity to discuss this.

The note was my last resort before having to print a copy of my title and give it to him, which in that case I believe would have made things worse. If you keep telling or showing your neighbour politely that you are not happy with something and they just don't give a t**s, what can you do?

"Dear visitor, I would appreciate if you could please park you car on the street in the future. This area is not for parking purposes as your vehicle is blocking access to my garage. Thank you - neighbour No. XX"

That happened after a car was sitting there for three hours and there were several spaces on the street!

If someone finds this aggressive then so be it, if anything they owned me an apology.

I totally agree with your point about requesting access at inconvenient times, I have now gone down that route

BykerSands

talisker1947 wrote: »

As previously wrote there was no passive or aggressive note. We had friendly discussions with the neighbour (from the very first day) indicating to me that he "got" the point. Plain and simple. Besides if he felt entitled to rights of parking he would not have asked for permission or move his car. He had the opportunity to discuss this.

The note was my last resort before having to print a copy of my title and give it to him, which in that case I believe would have made things worse. If you keep telling or showing your neighbour politely that you are not happy with something and they just don't give a t**s, what can you do?

"Dear visitor, I would appreciate if you could please park you car on the street in the future. This area is not for parking purposes as your vehicle is blocking access to my garage. Thank you - neighbour No. XX"

That happened after a car was sitting there for three hours and there were several spaces on the street!

If someone finds this aggressive then so be it, if anything they owned me an apology.

I totally agree with your point about requesting access at inconvenient times, I have now gone down that route

Maybe the neighbour instructed them to park there and he owes you the apology.

Doozergirl

Three whole hours! :eek:

talisker1947

Doozergirl wrote: »

You didn't buy a house with clear deeds and boundaries, you bought a house with some manner of shared access! And that involves patience, compromise and politeness. Perhaps even on more than one occasion. You buy yourself peace only with clearly marked and fenced boundaries.

Frankly a ludicrous comment, perhaps conveyancing was made for fun according to your statement. The title is absolutely clear, it was drawn with bold boundaries and registered under the land registry for many decades before most of us were born. Right of way does not imply right of ownership or parking. The boundaries ARE clearly marked, the land belongs to my title and the title states,

"...the passageway at the side included in this title is subject to rights of way"

I don't think that needs translation for you?

As for "clearly marked and fenced boundaries", I'm sure you know from real life examples that doesn't give you peace of mind either.

What the previous owner arranged verbally with the neighbour is not binding to any new owner in any way, this is why a good conveyancer will investigate all the deeds of the property and carry out proper searches before you exchange.

The phrase "disrespect the title" is absurd. The sooner you realise this is about humans, not paper, the better chance you have of having an amicable relationship with people who are probably okay.

It's called conveyancing for a reason, best to have a good solicitor when buying:)

No, your comments are absurd. You have clearly set your mind on a line of assumptions concluding that I am aggressive to my neighbour and they have been great people. No need to say more...

talisker1947

MisterBaxter wrote: »

ownership of the central driveway that provides access to the rear garage is split equally between the two adjoining properties but the whole driveway is then coloured on the plan to show that both parties have shared rights of access over the whole driveway; if you put a fence up down the middle it would be in contravention of the deeds which would probably cause more problems than it solves.

A lot of the people who live in these properties have similar problems; occasional tolerance seems to somehow turn into acceptance and people don't know when they have overstepped their welcome. Parking always seems to be very emotive. The friendly approach works well where relationships are on a good grounding but when relationships have broken down it turns into all out neighbour war.

You have put it well in your comments.

Except that the alleyway is not split between the properties (I also have the neighbour's title in my hands and his boundaries are confined to his house/garden), it is clearly market as part of my title with rights of way for the neighbour. My conveyancer also wrote to me when buying to confirm this.

Believe me I tried the friendly way again and again, I even baked them a cake, as per my joke, when I moved in. But this guy just wants to keep provoking and pretend he doesn't understand.

These things cannot be put in context on forums. They were parking their cars as tight as possible to my kerb, with plenty of room on either. Just to make my life hard pulling in and out of my drive simply because I had a drive to park and they did not.

As you said, people don't know when they have overstepped their welcome, this is exactly why I put this right and clear from the beginning to avoid misunderstandings. And yet this is where we are...

Doozergirl

talisker1947 wrote: »

Frankly a ludicrous comment, perhaps conveyancing was made for fun according to your statement. The title is absolutely clear, it was drawn with bold boundaries and registered under the land registry for many decades before most of us were born. Right of way does not imply right of ownership or parking. The boundaries ARE clearly marked, the land belongs to my title and the title states,

"...the passageway at the side included in this title is subject to rights of way"

I don't think that needs translation for you?

As for "clearly marked and fenced boundaries", I'm sure you know from real life examples that doesn't give you peace of mind either.

What the previous owner arranged verbally with the neighbour is not binding to any new owner in any way, this is why a good conveyancer will investigate all the deeds of the property and carry out proper searches before you exchange.

It's called conveyancing for a reason, best to have a good solicitor when buying:)

No, your comments are absurd. You have clearly set your mind on a line of assumptions concluding that I am aggressive to my neighbour and they have been great people. No need to say more...

I know what a right of way is. Buying a house that gives right of way or access to someone else is rarely clean, especially when there is no intention of give and take and that is my point. You want simple title, you buy simple title.

You read what you want to read, not what is written. The worst kind of poster on these forums is the one who asks for advice, gets upset when they read something they don't agree with and then twists it to try and ridicule.

Call your solicitor and throw money at it. That's what you wanted to hear.

Twopints

talisker1947 wrote: »

<Snipped (most of) the condescending drivel>

No, your comments are absurd. You have clearly set your mind on a line of assumptions concluding that I am aggressive to my neighbour and they have been great people. No need to say more...

Sounds like you and your neighbour deserve each other.

talisker1947

MisterBaxter wrote: »

How it would affect the value of the property will in part be determined by the general availability of parking, if it is at a premium then having access to some off road parking may actually make the property more valuable or at least more sellable than without the option, even if that potential isn't currentlybeing used.

I personally think that doing away with the drive is a heavy handed solution to the problem, there must be other residents who are quite happily co-existing with their neighbours so this is just a neighbour dispute, if not the drive then probably something else.

To clarify, the alleyway is a single car width. A mid-sized modern car could possibly be parked in the garage, albeit it would be hard to avoid damaging your car. But I don't need a garage, my drive is block paved and fits two cars (without blocking the alley entrance of course). So parking off-street was a must when I bought the place, as the street is near transport and schools and may be marked with restrictions in the future.

From what I could observe no one across the neighbourhood use their rear garage for parking. Most people have a paved drive and some have converted to rear extensions dropping the garage. Pretty standard I believe, except that of course no other neighbour parks in front of the shared access with their neighbour.

With this many drives and a spacious road, there is always space for parking. To give you the picture, the neighbour almost always parks his cars at the exact same spot.

Honestly I have no clue what it is they are trying to achieve, but we have had no prior disputes or arguments in the past.

I'm thinking it's time to start knocking on their door at 4am to bring things out of the garage now:P

MisterBaxter

OP - if you own the whole drive but your neighbour has rights of way over it I can't really see much incentive for your neighbour to agree any sort of variation to the deeds that would simply remove their rights, but you could try to buy them out of their right of way or look to transfer half of the drive to them (at nil consideration) at which point you could put up a fence and have clear cut boundaries without any of the issues that come with having shared space. Obviously these only work if your neighbour has no desire to retain vehicular access to the rear of the property. The problem I see with this is that at the moment your neighbour enjoys all of the benefits of access but presumably without any of the obligations that come with ownership such as maintenance. For them to agree to anything it would make sense that it would have to appear to be to their advantage.

I'm not sure that the 4am door knock is going to calm the situation though particularly as you don't use the garage. It's probably just a good way to inflame the situation.

talisker1947

MisterBaxter wrote: »

The problem I see with this is that at the moment your neighbour enjoys all of the benefits of access but presumably without any of the obligations that come with ownership such as maintenance. For them to agree to anything it would make sense that it would have to appear to be to their advantage.

You have a point but it would not benefit either of us in fencing the alley as it now allows good room to the rear, where rubbish and garden material can be moved easier. It also helps moving large furniture/appliances in/out of the house from the garden doors at the back.

The other thing is that my conveyancer explained the neighbour carries equal responsibility for maintenance costs of the alley. I'm not quite sure how he reached to that conclusion, but he came across as very experienced and knowledgeable throughout the process. I cannot imagine these things working among most neighbours unless there is a good relationship and mutual interest.

But for example, when I once asked if he was interested in making a drive on his front garden and share the cost of extending our dropped kerb, he turned it down and told me that he likes his garden. This goes to the "reasonable hints" I mentioned earlier.

I'm not sure that the 4am door knock is going to calm the situation though particularly as you don't use the garage.

It was a light hearted joke, but I may do it at other hours if they go further with provocation