Parking rights issue with neighbour

talisker1947

I live in a semi-detached house with a front drive and "shared access" alleyway on the side, leading to the rear two garages, one on either side, opposite being the neighbour's. The alley is between our houses. The garages are not for modern cars so we both use them for storage. It's a pretty common configuration for semi-detached properties with shared alleyway in this country. The neighbour doesn't have a drive and does not want/plan to build any but maintains a garden at the front. He parks on the street which is not a busy street anyway.

The issue is that the previous owner gave permission to the neighbour to park his car on the drive of the alley entrance (simple line drawing below). When I moved in he asked if they could carry on parking there - literally right next to my drive - but I kindly asked them not to use the space for parking. This was obvious for both legal and practical reasons. Technically they don't have any rights as the land belongs to my title, they only have right of access to their garage. And practically due to the dropped kerb being narrow I would have to manoevre to avoid their car all the time.

I wanted to be nice with them and maintain a good relationship so I did not approach them with legalese.

Top view example

DROP KERB
\____________/

MY ALLEY
DRIVE ENTER
_______ ____ _________
| | | GARDEN|
| CAR | car | |
| | | |
HOUSE gate HOUSE
| |
| |
/ \


Occasionally they park their car in the alley entrance to load/unload for kids etc. I never said anything about it and have been very reasonable. But then on more than one occasions they have left their car there for a few hours. One day a visitor parked there for a party more than half a day. Another, his wife "forgot" the car till next morning. That time I thought enough was enough and placed a polite note on their windscreen reminding them that we needed access to our garage at all times.

A few months ago a visitor parked in again for over two hours. This was the last straw, I left a note -albeit polite- to the visitor telling them that basically the drive is not for parking, they simply need to use the street. Perhaps it was a mistake not to confront them directly taking an informal approach. A few days later I noticed they were not speaking to me or say hello. I decided to ignore them and say hello anyway, their attitude was really silly and awkward. They even bought another car and now park their cars as tight as possible around our dropped kerb to make it difficult to enter our drive.

They have clearly demonstrated they understand the issue from the beginning and stopped parking their car on the alleyway. But more than often they also want demonstrate they don't give a fig and somehow believe they have rights over the land for parking.

I decided to put it formally to them as the relationship has gone down the drain due to their stupidity. I'm thinking to contact my conveyancer to confirm a few things on the title and drop them a formal letter. Is there anything else I could do?

Dan-Dan

I`m confused , are they still parking where they shouldnt , or not?

ljonski

If you go down this route, you will have to declare this dispute on selling your house in the future. Maybe let the matter drop!

moneyistooshorttomention

As you have to allow your alleyway to be used for access then you cant take the solution of putting up a locked gate across it of any description.

So - that being the case - it does rather look as if you need to send neighbour a letter from a solicitor stating that they are not to block your access by parking there. It's your ROW to get up your alleyway to your property at the back and its not legally allowed to block access to a ROW.

MisterBaxter

This is a fairly common layout and from what I understand a fairly common problem. The deeds to both properties should clearly define who owns what and what rights of access each party has over the land in question. Presumably your neighbour has rights to cross the land to access the rear garage but that does not mean that they can park, normally this would apply to both parties.

As has already been suggested, if you droping them a note hasn't worked then a letter from a Solicitor explaining the situation and reminding them what they can and can't do. If that fails it will be back to the Solicitor for advice but I would have thought it would come down to an injunction.

I don't think that there is much you can do about them parking close to the drop kerb providing they don't block it, you could ask the Council to put a white line across the drop kerb denoting the 'no parking area' but it will cost and I can't see the Council being in a hurry to enforce it.

Getting a Solicitor involved isn't going to ease the tensions between you so I would suggest trying to engage them in a friendly manner again, apologise for using a note rather than taking the time to talk to them and see if they will discuss the issue.

Doozergirl

The tension was created by your passive aggressive note. I doubt that a solicitor's letter is going to help anything!

A sensible conversation and - I'm sorry - a bit of leeway for people to have a visitor park for a bit or even, shock horror, to forget the car overnight - would have been the best option.

You have to remember that getting on with your neighbours is actually more important than the occassional bit of errant parking. You're finding now that they have two cars and are playing to exact boundaries etc that being completely to the letter isn't always the best option.

Quite simply, if you had ever wanted to access to your garage on the few occassions they were parked on it, I am sure that asking politely would have been met with an apology and the car moved.

Make friends with them, not everyone's life hard.

talisker1947

Dan-Dan wrote: »

I`m confused , are they still parking where they shouldnt , or not?

They are intermittently parking for lengths of time that amount to "parking" basically

talisker1947

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

As you have to allow your alleyway to be used for access then you cant take the solution of putting up a locked gate across it of any description.

So - that being the case - it does rather look as if you need to send neighbour a letter from a solicitor stating that they are not to block your access by parking there. It's your ROW to get up your alleyway to your property at the back and its not legally allowed to block access to a ROW.

The gate was present with the property, we both have a key and it just provides extra safety. Sorry, it was a description for the alley. But nothing to do with the issue at hand, and I agree with you that my legal point is exactly stated in your last sentence. Neither of us has the right to block access.

moneyistooshorttomention

I don't agree that its reasonable to have to "ask" an errant parker to move - even if they do so very promptly each time.

If you have access, you have access end of....

I watch the "parking wars" going on between a couple of my neighbours and one of them is a very frequent offender at parking where they shouldn't. Sometimes that illicit parking is done in such a way that the other neighbour would have to "ask" them to move in order to be able to get their own car in or out.

I don't actually have any sympathy with either of them (long story as to how things have been) - but I know I would be most annoyed if I had to "ask" someone not to park where they know very well they shouldn't park in the first place. I would expect to just get in my car and go if I had one - without having to go through all that malarkey of "asking" and "asking" and "asking" again.

The annoyance at having to "ask" for whats rightfully yours anyway would drive a lot of people to "build up a head of steam" and one day just blow at the errant parkers.

EDIT; Re that fashionable way of putting things, ie "passive aggressive" - then I would say that just stating facts is just stating facts. Now it might be that fashionable concept of "passive aggressive" if OP retaliated by thinking "Two can play at that game" and parking his car across the access point - though I don't think he could be blamed one bit if he did that personally.

talisker1947

MisterBaxter wrote: »

This is a fairly common layout and from what I understand a fairly common problem. The deeds to both properties should clearly define who owns what and what rights of access each party has over the land in question. Presumably your neighbour has rights to cross the land to access the rear garage but that does not mean that they can park, normally this would apply to both parties..

Exactly, the deeds are pretty clear

As has already been suggested, if you droping them a note hasn't worked then a letter from a Solicitor explaining the situation and reminding them what they can and can't do. If that fails it will be back to the Solicitor for advice but I would have thought it would come down to an injunction.

I think this is probably what I will have to do, I tried to resolve the matter nicely and they appear to be arguing in a way that they have rights over my land. I have seen no other neighbours doing that to their neighbours in the area. These people are weird...

I don't think that there is much you can do about them parking close to the drop kerb providing they don't block it, you could ask the Council to put a white line across the drop kerb denoting the 'no parking area' but it will cost and I can't see the Council being in a hurry to enforce it.

Actually their wheels and bumpers were extending into my dropped kerb several times. The mentality is that they feel the street space in front of the house somehow belong to them. So if another car parks there and there is little space but enough with their rear wheel coming into my dropped kerb, they will just park there rather than move it further down the road. I decided not to go down that route inviting the council to issue a PCN. We are not exactly at "war" but I haven't figure out what their problem is. We never talked to them badly or did anything wrong, they just keep provoking.

Getting a Solicitor involved isn't going to ease the tensions between you so I would suggest trying to engage them in a friendly manner again, apologise for using a note rather than taking the time to talk to them and see if they will discuss the issue.

Thank you. I agree may try that again, but we did have verbal communications before and they seemed to understand the issue, they apologised once. Then they just keep doing it thinking that "it's ok this once". I bought the property with parking for exactly that reason, to save myself from disputes and street parking. I find it unfair they want to maintain a garden but also treat the drive entrance as a-la-carte parking...

Doozergirl

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I don't agree that its reasonable to have to "ask" an errant parker to move - even if they do so very promptly each time.

If you have access, you have access end of....

I watch the "parking wars" going on between a couple of my neighbours and one of them is a very frequent offender at parking where they shouldn't. Sometimes that illicit parking is done in such a way that the other neighbour would have to "ask" them to move in order to be able to get their own car in or out.

I don't actually have any sympathy with either of them (long story as to how things have been) - but I know I would be most annoyed if I had to "ask" someone not to park where they know very well they shouldn't park in the first place. I would expect to just get in my car and go if I had one - without having to go through all that malarkey of "asking" and "asking" and "asking" again.

The annoyance at having to "ask" for whats rightfully yours anyway would drive a lot of people to "build up a head of steam" and one day just blow at the errant parkers.

EDIT; Re that fashionable way of putting things, ie "passive aggressive" - then I would say that just stating facts is just stating facts. Now it might be that fashionable concept of "passive aggressive" if OP retaliated by thinking "Two can play at that game" and parking his car across the access point - though I don't think he could be blamed one bit if he did that personally.

And it isn't a co-incidence that you have your own neighbour dispute.