Sign the Petition for Womens state pension age going up unfair

Figgerty

colsten wrote: »

Nobody can argue with the principle of what you say, as it would be the same notice for everyone. I haven't, however, heard or read anything from WASPI Towers that says they demand 10 years notice - have you?

Men and women did get the same number of years notice of the 2011 changes, albeit not 10 years.

Regardless of whether it should be 5, 10, 15 etc years: I still find it difficult to understand why any group campaigning against inequality would not also include men when they ask for some of the 2011 legislation to be undone. Or why the campaign shouldn't include all affected women, for that matter.

I don't understand your gripe. Perhaps those demanding the most are those most effected and most in need. My 'demands' are less but that may reflect my needs/wants and my level of knowledge of the changes. Any changes achieved should be fair to all, men and women. Even our Government does not speak with one voice and certainly the opposition has a couple of hundred diverse voices but each party signed up to the same manifesto and believing only some of it.

missbiggles1

Lizzie_Cornish wrote: »

Soon, they will be, for men too will have Pension Credit linked to THEIR retirement age, meaning that they too, from 60 onwards, will be left without any safety net, financially, until they reach 66, other than JSA, with all the indignities and terrible pressures and stresses this now comes with, (only there for 6 months), then they too, just like us, will be FORCED into being Re-Trained....No-one will employ us, of course, thus ALL this money spent on retraining older folks is utterly wasted.
.

Apologies for cutting short your rant but I had to correct a couple of points. It's only contributions based JSA which is limited to a 6 month period. There's no limit to the length of time you can claim means tested JSA, which is what somebody previously eligible for pension credit would be claiming.

Also, if you think that there's any money being spent at present on retraining, much less "forcible" retraining, then I fear you are very much out of touch.

Figgerty

bmm78 wrote: »

There's a lot of interesting information in there when people aren't trying to twist the findings to suit their aims

48 pages to tell us how the state pension age change was publicised. I don't have the attention span for that. Any summary?

I remember the AIDS campaign from way back and that was very successful. You did not have to watch the news to find out. A massive change to peoples finances or working lives should not have relied on seeing the Budget or a news.

zagfles

Lizzie_Cornish wrote: »

This is incorrect.

What is incorrect?

A man can, at present, claim Pension Credit whilst still under his retirement age of 65/66, as it is linked to the retirement age of women, thus, if he is 62.5/63 at present, he can claim Pension Credit until he is 65/66, as can a woman of the same age.

Yes - it was a new benefit and so couldn't be sexist. It has to apply equally to a man and woman of teh same age.

Women who ALSO NOW have a pension age of 66 CANNOT claim this though, because it is only there now for the specific group of women who are still able to retire at 62.5/63, at this present time.

Thus, men and women who both have the same retirement age, the woman having the NEW retirement age, are NOT equal.

Indeed, a man and woman born on the same day will have the same pension credit age, but the woman may have an earlier state pension age.

Soon, they will be, for men too will have Pension Credit linked to THEIR retirement age, meaning that they too, from 60 onwards, will be left without any safety net, financially, until they reach 66, other than JSA,

There's also disability benefits for those unable or who have difficulty working, such as ESA, DLA/PIP etc. Including those with mental problems as well as physical.

with all the indignities and terrible pressures and stresses this now comes with, (only there for 6 months), then they too, just like us, will be FORCED into being Re-Trained....No-one will employ us, of course, thus ALL this money spent on retraining older folks is utterly wasted.

B&Q seem to like older workers. We have plenty at our place as well, even some new recruits over 60!

Welcome, Boys, to The New World Order of taking the jobs of young people, if you can, of being constantly rejected for nearly ALL jobs, of depression setting in, of being kicked into the gutter, after a lifetime of paying NI and raising your families, caring for your elderly relatives too, in the case of many women.....

Women don't have unbroken careers in the main, because we are mothers, raise our children, care for our parents, etc...saving this country a fortune along the way, taking part-time jobs to fit in around doing all of this...

We've been shafted twice over, once with an age increase of FIVE YEARS in ONE go and once again,with another ONE year being ADDED ON TOP of this outrageous amount..

NO man has to wait SIX YEARS longer than his expected pension date, NO man, but we 1950s women DO, so do the 1960s women as well, for they also were told they'd retire at 60...even the 70s women.

The governmnet did NOT send ANY letters out at all about the first jump of FIVE YEARS, none, this has been confirmed to me by the DWP themselves, last week. They ONLY started to inform women in 2012, when they wrote to tell them they'd be retiring at 66 now...even this was stopped betweenApril and November that year, as they were concerned their info was incorrect.

Been discussed earlier. The govt don't need to personally inform people when they change laws that affect them. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse", as any judge will tell someone who breaks the law. Same applies.

Most women did not find out until just a very few years before they were due to retire that they'd have SIX YEARS added on to their pension age, unable to do anything to help themselves at all.

Been discussed above...

For those of us on our own,this is actually life-threatening now, for many of us cannot cope, becoming ill, deeply stressed, deeply depressed, falling into debt, losing homes, losing will to live.

What the government has done is illegal,

Illegal? Evidence for this?

for people are supposed to be given 10 years notice of a single years rise. We were given NONE,of a SIX YEAR rise....

DWP relied, solely, on publicity, newspapers, TV, etc, but if you weren't watching/reading the right papers, etc. you'd know nothing about this. Nor would you have known, even if you were aware of increase to 65, that YOUR group of women would have a 12/18 months rise, or a 5/6 YEAR rise, because not a single thing was EVER sent out to those who were to be so grossly affected.

Govt delivered a few brochures to some,but there is also a DWP factsheet saying that these brochures were very difficult to find..They put most of them in JOB CENTRES ??????? Ican only assume so they could say that they HAD informed people, but of course, no-one directly affected would EVER have seen those leaflets...even if they'd gone to the job centre during their lives, as they'd not have associated pensions with job centres...

Very clever conmen, who ever thought that one up....

And of course, sending a few out to to a few was even more clever, because they could claim they'd done this, whilst not mentioning that most knew NOTHING about this, never getting these brochures..

It's a Conman Idea...hide the news you know will cause an explosion, by making out you'd told everyone, when The Explosion DOES happen, 15/20 years down the line....

You seriously think it was all a big conspiracy? Were the Labour govt between 1997-2010 in on it as well? I knew about it in 1995 when I had no interest in pensions whatsoever then. And it didn't even affect me.

Daniel54

Figgerty wrote: »

48 pages to tell us how the state pension age change was publicised. I don't have the attention span for that. Any summary?
.

The trouble is that this report has been widely misquoted,most likely because people haven't taken the time to read it and just relied on the summary at the beginning

I can't pretend that it is a riveting read,but a lot of it is graphs and tables.A quick read over a cup of tea should do it.

missbiggles1

Lizzie_Cornish wrote: »

This is incorrect. A man can, at present, claim Pension Credit whilst still under his retirement age of 65/66, as it is linked to the retirement age of women, thus, if he is 62.5/63 at present, he can claim Pension Credit until he is 65/66, as can a woman of the same age.

Women who ALSO NOW have a pension age of 66 CANNOT claim this though, because it is only there now for the specific group of women who are still able to retire at 62.5/63, at this present time.

Thus, men and women who both have the same retirement age, the woman having the NEW retirement age, are NOT equal.

Soon, they will be, for men too will have Pension Credit linked to THEIR retirement age, meaning that they too, from 60 onwards, will be left without any safety net, financially, until they reach 66, other than JSA, with all the indignities and terrible pressures and stresses this now comes with, (only there for 6 months), then they too, just like us, will be FORCED into being Re-Trained....No-one will employ us, of course, thus ALL this money spent on retraining older folks is utterly wasted.

Welcome, Boys, to The New World Order of taking the jobs of young people, if you can, of being constantly rejected for nearly ALL jobs, of depression setting in, of being kicked into the gutter, after a lifetime of paying NI and raising your families, caring for your elderly relatives too, in the case of many women.....

Women don't have unbroken careers in the main, because we are mothers, raise our children, care for our parents, etc...saving this country a fortune along the way, taking part-time jobs to fit in around doing all of this...

We've been shafted twice over, once with an age increase of FIVE YEARS in ONE go and once again,with another ONE year being ADDED ON TOP of this outrageous amount..

NO man has to wait SIX YEARS longer than his expected pension date, NO man, but we 1950s women DO, so do the 1960s women as well, for they also were told they'd retire at 60...even the 70s women.

The governmnet did NOT send ANY letters out at all about the first jump of FIVE YEARS, none, this has been confirmed to me by the DWP themselves, last week. They ONLY started to inform women in 2012, when they wrote to tell them they'd be retiring at 66 now...even this was stopped betweenApril and November that year, as they were concerned their info was incorrect.

Most women did not find out until just a very few years before they were due to retire that they'd have SIX YEARS added on to their pension age, unable to do anything to help themselves at all.

For those of us on our own,this is actually life-threatening now, for many of us cannot cope, becoming ill, deeply stressed, deeply depressed, falling into debt, losing homes, losing will to live.

What the government has done is illegal, for people are supposed to be given 10 years notice of a single years rise. We were given NONE,of a SIX YEAR rise....

DWP relied, solely, on publicity, newspapers, TV, etc, but if you weren't watching/reading the right papers, etc. you'd know nothing about this. Nor would you have known, even if you were aware of increase to 65, that YOUR group of women would have a 12/18 months rise, or a 5/6 YEAR rise, because not a single thing was EVER sent out to those who were to be so grossly affected.

Govt delivered a few brochures to some,but there is also a DWP factsheet saying that these brochures were very difficult to find..They put most of them in JOB CENTRES ??????? Ican only assume so they could say that they HAD informed people, but of course, no-one directly affected would EVER have seen those leaflets...even if they'd gone to the job centre during their lives, as they'd not have associated pensions with job centres...

Very clever conmen, who ever thought that one up....

And of course, sending a few out to to a few was even more clever, because they could claim they'd done this, whilst not mentioning that most knew NOTHING about this, never getting these brochures..

It's a Conman Idea...hide the news you know will cause an explosion, by making out you'd told everyone, when The Explosion DOES happen, 15/20 years down the line....

Truly, sick.....

Do I think linking men's Pension Credit age to their pension age is right? No, I don't, because many men will now suffer as we are suffering. Few even know about this Pension Credit safety net for them, I was stunned when I found out...for it's meant that many men were able to claim this from when they were 60, to 65, (when women's retirement age was still 60)...now they'll become just as ill as us, and I don't wish that on any man.

ALL they had to do was equal the ages to 62.5 for men and women, job done...increase women's age GRADUALLY, as they'd promised to (even says this in one of their leaflets, 'to gradually increase') and no stress would have been caused to anyone.

Oh..and with regard to everyone's age rising all the time (which is truly evil) read today's article in The Telegraph called 'Getting Everyone To Retire Later Is A Bad Idea', which is the most sensible report I've read in ages, about life-expectancy and everyone still being able to retire at 65...We get what we will allow and many of these folks making these awful decisions do NOT relate to people at ALL, only to £$£$£s

The women who started up The WASPI Campaign are absolutely wonderful, for they have united hundreds of thousands of we 1950s women, who have been cast into financial and emotional hell. They have worked SO HARD for all of us...and Ros Altmann should be ashamed of what she is now saying and doing...

You will find her words about us, before she became Pensions Minister, whilst working for SAGA, when she supported us 100% on her site (I can't link to it, sadly) here:

- ros altmann dot com forward slash women spa house of lords briefing march2011 dot -

You will need to put the first letter of these words 'world wide web' (three times over) at the start of the above and an h and a t and an m at the end of the above too (sorry, can't put that above as it won't let me post

And, she obviously never got the letters and brochures they're now trying to say we all got, else she'd have known all about them and would have spoken out years back, she being just a few months younger than me, at 59 (I'm 60)

Now, Ros and her new pals, mostly financial folks, are trying to make out we are utterly selfish humans, uncaring of who else has to suffer so that we do not....Clever, eh? It's what The Spin Doctors do,try to turn one section of a population against the other. The fact she's helping to do this is APPALLING for Ros KNOWS the trauma many of us are in....She refuses to even meet with WASPI.

I'm the very kind of woman she spoke of in that link about, a mother,raised her children, cared for her Dad (3 years to his death) and for my now ex-mother-in-law, for 15 years, 9 when I was married, 6 after we divorced, as she's lived her with me for that time.

This is not anequality thing, it's about the 'gradual increase', that TRANSITION thing NOT having been adhered to at all, plunging many of us into hell.

I think we've been stung by a WASPI.;)

Pollycat

Lizzie_Cornish wrote: »

This is incorrect. A man can, at present, claim Pension Credit whilst still under his retirement age of 65/66, as it is linked to the retirement age of women, thus, if he is 62.5/63 at present, he can claim Pension Credit until he is 65/66, as can a woman of the same age.

Women who ALSO NOW have a pension age of 66 CANNOT claim this though, because it is only there now for the specific group of women who are still able to retire at 62.5/63, at this present time.

Thus, men and women who both have the same retirement age, the woman having the NEW retirement age, are NOT equal.

Soon, they will be, for men too will have Pension Credit linked to THEIR retirement age, meaning that they too, from 60 onwards, will be left without any safety net, financially, until they reach 66, other than JSA, with all the indignities and terrible pressures and stresses this now comes with, (only there for 6 months), then they too, just like us, will be FORCED into being Re-Trained....No-one will employ us, of course, thus ALL this money spent on retraining older folks is utterly wasted.

Welcome, Boys, to The New World Order of taking the jobs of young people, if you can, of being constantly rejected for nearly ALL jobs, of depression setting in, of being kicked into the gutter, after a lifetime of paying NI and raising your families, caring for your elderly relatives too, in the case of many women.....

Women don't have unbroken careers in the main, because we are mothers, raise our children, care for our parents, etc...saving this country a fortune along the way, taking part-time jobs to fit in around doing all of this...

We've been shafted twice over, once with an age increase of FIVE YEARS in ONE go and once again,with another ONE year being ADDED ON TOP of this outrageous amount..

NO man has to wait SIX YEARS longer than his expected pension date, NO man, but we 1950s women DO, so do the 1960s women as well, for they also were told they'd retire at 60...even the 70s women.

The governmnet did NOT send ANY letters out at all about the first jump of FIVE YEARS, none, this has been confirmed to me by the DWP themselves, last week. They ONLY started to inform women in 2012, when they wrote to tell them they'd be retiring at 66 now...even this was stopped betweenApril and November that year, as they were concerned their info was incorrect.

Most women did not find out until just a very few years before they were due to retire that they'd have SIX YEARS added on to their pension age, unable to do anything to help themselves at all.

For those of us on our own,this is actually life-threatening now, for many of us cannot cope, becoming ill, deeply stressed, deeply depressed, falling into debt, losing homes, losing will to live.

What the government has done is illegal, for people are supposed to be given 10 years notice of a single years rise. We were given NONE,of a SIX YEAR rise....

DWP relied, solely, on publicity, newspapers, TV, etc, but if you weren't watching/reading the right papers, etc. you'd know nothing about this. Nor would you have known, even if you were aware of increase to 65, that YOUR group of women would have a 12/18 months rise, or a 5/6 YEAR rise, because not a single thing was EVER sent out to those who were to be so grossly affected.

Govt delivered a few brochures to some,but there is also a DWP factsheet saying that these brochures were very difficult to find..They put most of them in JOB CENTRES ??????? Ican only assume so they could say that they HAD informed people, but of course, no-one directly affected would EVER have seen those leaflets...even if they'd gone to the job centre during their lives, as they'd not have associated pensions with job centres...

Very clever conmen, who ever thought that one up....

And of course, sending a few out to to a few was even more clever, because they could claim they'd done this, whilst not mentioning that most knew NOTHING about this, never getting these brochures..

It's a Conman Idea...hide the news you know will cause an explosion, by making out you'd told everyone, when The Explosion DOES happen, 15/20 years down the line....

Truly, sick.....

Do I think linking men's Pension Credit age to their pension age is right? No, I don't, because many men will now suffer as we are suffering. Few even know about this Pension Credit safety net for them, I was stunned when I found out...for it's meant that many men were able to claim this from when they were 60, to 65, (when women's retirement age was still 60)...now they'll become just as ill as us, and I don't wish that on any man.

ALL they had to do was equal the ages to 62.5 for men and women, job done...increase women's age GRADUALLY, as they'd promised to (even says this in one of their leaflets, 'to gradually increase') and no stress would have been caused to anyone.

Oh..and with regard to everyone's age rising all the time (which is truly evil) read today's article in The Telegraph called 'Getting Everyone To Retire Later Is A Bad Idea', which is the most sensible report I've read in ages, about life-expectancy and everyone still being able to retire at 65...We get what we will allow and many of these folks making these awful decisions do NOT relate to people at ALL, only to £$£$£s

The women who started up The WASPI Campaign are absolutely wonderful, for they have united hundreds of thousands of we 1950s women, who have been cast into financial and emotional hell. They have worked SO HARD for all of us...and Ros Altmann should be ashamed of what she is now saying and doing...

You will find her words about us, before she became Pensions Minister, whilst working for SAGA, when she supported us 100% on her site (I can't link to it, sadly) here:

- ros altmann dot com forward slash women spa house of lords briefing march2011 dot -

You will need to put the first letter of these words 'world wide web' (three times over) at the start of the above and an h and a t and an m at the end of the above too (sorry, can't put that above as it won't let me post

And, she obviously never got the letters and brochures they're now trying to say we all got, else she'd have known all about them and would have spoken out years back, she being just a few months younger than me, at 59 (I'm 60)

Now, Ros and her new pals, mostly financial folks, are trying to make out we are utterly selfish humans, uncaring of who else has to suffer so that we do not....Clever, eh? It's what The Spin Doctors do,try to turn one section of a population against the other. The fact she's helping to do this is APPALLING for Ros KNOWS the trauma many of us are in....She refuses to even meet with WASPI.

I'm the very kind of woman she spoke of in that link about, a mother,raised her children, cared for her Dad (3 years to his death) and for my now ex-mother-in-law, for 15 years, 9 when I was married, 6 after we divorced, as she's lived her with me for that time.

This is not anequality thing, it's about the 'gradual increase', that TRANSITION thing NOT having been adhered to at all, plunging many of us into hell.

Well, Lizzie Cornish will not find this website the same sycophantic, delete-everything-that-doesn't-agree-with-us, we're-changing-our-'asks'-yet-again place as the WASPI Facebook page. :whistle:

POPPYOSCAR

Malthusian wrote: »

Nope. I could also have pointed out that most hacks writing for the financial pages are still repeating the myth that George Osborne abolished compulsory annuitisation. (Compulsory annuitisation was in fact abolished in 2006.) So this is a simple, basic fact that a significant number of financial journalists are unable to get right even though it relates to the last decade. And you're asking us to believe that some unnamed journalists who appeared on a talk show this morning couldn't remember the State Pension changes being reported 20 years ago, therefore it couldn't have happened. Despite the personal recollections of the majority of this board, and the press cuttings unearthed some pages back that demonstrate the opposite.

But it was easier simply to point out how threadbare your appeal to authority is when your authority is "some journalists".

Talk about twisting a post to suit your own agenda!

POPPYOSCAR

missbiggles1 wrote: »

Even The Sun and The Mirror report the budget statement thoroughly, as do all TV and radio news programmes.

And what has that got to do with my post?


I was responding to the poster who was deriding people for, and I quote for not "reading serious newspapers".

jem16

saver861 wrote: »

I'm not clear ... are you saying it is fair that everyone should have 10 years notice given that that is now the current guideline agreed by the DWP?

Or are you saying something different?

I'm saying that it is fair but the fact that it is a guideline means it doesn't necessarily have to be followed.