and the biggest threat to the UK economy in 2016 is...

CLAPTON

mwpt wrote: »

I have a very simple solution for that. If a government does not want to meet the conditions of the lender, they may choose to borrow elsewhere.

For example, Greece could choose, meet the 'austerity' conditions and obtain ultra low interest rates from Europe. Or choose to not meet the conditions and borrow on the free market.

We will soon see whether austerity is a choice that left wing governments can offer their voters, or not.

yes, that would be a good test
also better to leave the euro and go back to the peseta and devalue massively

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

I would indeed ban all immigration except for a few thousands until our facilities are fit for purpose of the people already here.
Lets say at least 1.5 million homes so that people here can enjoy a better quality of life (plus appropriate other supporting infrastructure).
At least 20% more NHS staff and associated facilities

I want a better future for the people here and immigration will make the future worse.

I have no interest in your racist (and/or nonsensical) reference to Anglo Saxons, but I guess if the Nazi had won the war you would have been content with that because in 500 years it would all be part of our 'rich' history.

Well there are obvious points for a response there related to

The U.K. already having autonomy on the immigration you most complain about
The fact that we all want to improve our country
The irony of the racial word while raging about immigration
The obsession with Germany and Nazi
The irony of wanting to instantly cease immigration while at the. same time increasing staff in an NHS whiframes heavily on ex-immigrant staff
The irony of wanting to build more houses when the relevant work force benefits from many EU Migrants, many highly skilled
Yet another use of the word "nonsense"


But I really can't be bothered. You are, of course, entitled you your own opinion.


Even if it is, using your word, nonsense.

.string.

Sapphire wrote: »

I've also worked with many indigenous Europeans, including Germans, and have found them to be very likeable people. However, I do disagree profoundly with what Merkel has been doing over the last year or so, and do believe she is attempting to create a United States of Europe, with Germany dictating to other, weaker Europen countries. That is something I cannot accept.

I am truly puzzled by the remark about Merkel. Maybe you could explain what you mean.

The only thing that comes to my mind is the German insistence on economic rigour as a condition for German money being used to bail out some countries, or is there something else you had in mind?

CLAPTON

.string. wrote: »

Well there are obvious points for a response there related to

The U.K. already having autonomy on the immigration you most complain about
The fact that we all want to improve our country
The irony of the racial word while raging about immigration
The obsession with Germany and Nazi
The irony of wanting to instantly cease immigration while at the. same time increasing staff in an NHS whiframes heavily on ex-immigrant staff
The irony of wanting to build more houses when the relevant work force benefits from many EU Migrants, many highly skilled
Yet another use of the word "nonsense"


But I really can't be bothered. You are, of course, entitled you your own opinion.


Even if it is, using your word, nonsense.

my objective is very low immigration, with exceptions in the thousands for truely needed workers, which might very well include medical people (and maybe construction workers)

I believe the lives of young (under 40s) especially in London and the SE would be hugely improved if they were able to afford modest family sized homes:
3 million foreign born workers in London (and rising) will make their situation worse for the forseeable future.

Most people of good will, can easily reconcile limiting immigration numbers whilst allowing in 'essential' workers.

we could discuss other failings of the EU experiment (restrictions on trade, damage to third world counties, incompetence dealing with Greece, Spain etc economic problems, the rise of extreme right wings parties in the EU, environmental damage caused by bio fuel rules, diesel pollutants and many others

however best to ignore the real issue and problems and just scream 'racism'

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

my objective is very low immigration, with exceptions in the thousands for truely needed workers, which might very well include medical people (and maybe construction workers)

I believe the lives of young (under 40s) especially in London and the SE would be hugely improved if they were able to afford modest family sized homes:
3 million foreign born workers in London (and rising) will make their situation worse for the forseeable future.

Most people of good will, can easily reconcile limiting immigration numbers whilst allowing in 'essential' workers.

we could discuss other failings of the EU experiment (restrictions on trade, damage to third world counties, incompetence dealing with Greece, Spain etc economic problems, the rise of extreme right wings parties in the EU, environmental damage caused by bio fuel rules, diesel pollutants and many others

however best to ignore the real issue and problems and just scream 'racism'

Really CLAPTON, I've observed you making good points "in another place" why do you resort to such vague mumblings, some with little relevance to the UK's place in the EU?

There's a facility at the top of this page where you can insert a word and look for its occurrence in this thread - try it on race or racism and see what you get.

You surely cannot be complaining about every foreign-born person who lives in the UK. Send Drogba home? Shall I return my wife to Denmark and the foreign companies that invest here, what about their people? On examination such sentiments as you declare soon collapse when examined in detail. There will be some who don't benefit our country but there we have to look at the failing of our own systems in allowing such problems. Successive UK Goverments have lacked the "smarts" to deal with such things and it's not the EU which is to blame it is ourselves.

Re remarks about Greece Spain etc., well we are not in the Euro Zone and I shall be interested to know what progress can made made in Cameron's negotiations on that distinction and its consequences not only with respect to our exposure to the consequences of decisions made within the Euro Zone but also with regard to the "Ever Closer Union" issue.

In the meantime here I am in Spain over Christmas, secure in knowing that any emergency medical treatment is catered for during my stay due to the EU reciprocal agreements and that a close member of my family who lives here is well cared for in in her serious illness in the Spanish NHS due to the fact that her husband is entitled to work and pays his taxes here, having obtained his "Residentia". Tonight I spoke with my son who has lived and worked in Holland for many years and exchanged greetings with him and his young family.

Now there are some in the U.K. that have this destructive idea that foreign born nationals don't work and should b***er off home. I kind of hope that does not happen for what will then happen to my family? With that background I hope you can understand how I, a passionately loyal Brit, feels about those who would isolate the U.K..

CLAPTON

.string. wrote: »

Really CLAPTON, I've observed you making good points "in another place" why do you resort to such vague mumblings, some with little relevance to the UK's place in the EU?

There's a facility at the top of this page where you can insert a word and look for its occurrence in this thread - try it on race or racism and see what you get.

You surely cannot be complaining about every foreign-born person who lives in the UK. Send Drogba home? Shall I return my wife to Denmark and the foreign companies that invest here, what about their people? On examination such sentiments as you declare soon collapse when examined in detail. There will be some who don't benefit our country but there we have to look at the failing of our own systems in allowing such problems. Successive UK Goverments have lacked the "smarts" to deal with such things and it's not the EU which is to blame it is ourselves.

Re remarks about Greece Spain etc., well we are not in the Euro Zone and I shall be interested to know what progress can made made in Cameron's negotiations on that distinction and its consequences not only with respect to our exposure to the consequences of decisions made within the Euro Zone but also with regard to the "Ever Closer Union" issue.

In the meantime here I am in Spain over Christmas, secure in knowing that any emergency medical treatment is catered for during my stay due to the EU reciprocal agreements and that a close member of my family who lives here is well cared for in in her serious illness in the Spanish NHS due to the fact that her husband is entitled to work and pays his taxes here, having obtained his "Residentia". Tonight I spoke with my son who has lived and worked in Holland for many years and exchanged greetings with him and his young family.

Now there are some in the U.K. that have this destructive idea that foreign born nationals don't work and should b***er off home. I kind of hope that does not happen for what will then happen to my family? With that background I hope you can understand how I, a passionately loyal Brit, feels about those who would isolate the U.K..

why not start with your own position

do you support unlimited immigration?
or simply unlimited EU immigration?
or something else?

and to fill in your time in Spain you could search for
-a single reference where I have advocated sending anyone home (except foreign criminals )
-find a single reference to anywhere I have said foreign nationals don't work and don't contribute

also you can use 'travel insurance ' in a search engine and see that providing medical care is easily affordable

and if you have time, read what I ACTUALLY said and not with what you what to see.

.string.

CLAPTON wrote: »

why not start with your own position

do you support unlimited immigration?
or simply unlimited EU immigration?
or something else?

and to fill in your time in Spain you could search for
-a single reference where I have advocated sending anyone home (except foreign criminals )
-find a single reference to anywhere I have said foreign nationals don't work and don't contribute

also you can use 'travel insurance ' in a search engine and see that providing medical care is easily affordable

and if you have time, read what I ACTUALLY said and not with what you what to see.

No.

Enough is enough.

End.

CLAPTON

.string. wrote: »

No.

Enough is enough.

End.

hardly unexpected

: you back tracked on your justification of violent invasion
: you back tracked on the matter of the 4th Reich
: you have now back tracked on the nonsense that avoiding travel insurance in spain is a justification for the EU
: you have back tracked on your untrue accusations about my views on expelling anyone from the UK
: you have back tracked on the accusation that I have made any
unfavourable comments on foreigners working here.

plus a whole lot more I can't be bothered to find
and you refuse to state your own views


but you lack the integrity to actually say so.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

CLAPTON wrote: »

my objective is very low immigration, with exceptions in the thousands for truely needed workers, which might very well include medical people (and maybe construction workers)

My objective is much higher immigration.

A million a year or more.

I believe the lives of young (under 40s) especially in London and the SE would be hugely improved if they were able to afford modest family sized homes:

I agree.

Simply build more houses and they can.

3 million foreign born workers in London (and rising) will make their situation worse for the forseeable future.

Or.... (novel thought I know)... we could just build more houses.

Instead of crippling the young with unsustainable tax levels to support the massively growing numbers of old.

Most people of good will, can easily reconcile limiting immigration numbers whilst allowing in 'essential' workers.

Only if they wish to place an immense financial burden on the young in order to support their own selfish desire for population not to grow.

we could discuss other failings of the EU experiment (restrictions on trade, damage to third world counties, incompetence dealing with Greece, Spain etc economic problems, the rise of extreme right wings parties in the EU, environmental damage caused by bio fuel rules, diesel pollutants and many others

The EU has been immensely positive for the UK and indeed for all of Europe. The biggest factor by far in avoiding another great war in Europe, and responsible for economic progress and favourable trade terms we simply could not have achieved by ourselves, not to mention numerous other cultural and standard of living benefits.

however best to ignore the real issue and problems and just scream 'racism'

There are many people on here hiding their racism and bigotry behind the excuses of 'culture', 'costs' or 'sustainability'.

Makes it hard to spot the few who actually believe such fallacies instead of just using them for a smokescreen.

CLAPTON

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

My objective is much higher immigration.

A million a year or more.



I agree.

Simply build more houses and they can.



Or.... (novel thought I know)... we could just build more houses.

Instead of crippling the young with unsustainable tax levels to support the massively growing numbers of old.



Only if they wish to place an immense financial burden on the young in order to support their own selfish desire for population not to grow.



The EU has been immensely positive for the UK and indeed for all of Europe. The biggest factor by far in avoiding another great war in Europe, and responsible for economic progress and favourable trade terms we simply could not have achieved by ourselves, not to mention numerous other cultural and standard of living benefits.



There are many people on here hiding their racism and bigotry behind the excuses of 'culture', 'costs' or 'sustainability'.

Makes it hard to spot the few who actually believe such fallacies instead of just using them for a smokescreen.

Lets start with the million or more houses and other necessary infrastructure before allowing any more immigration.

If you are correct, then that can be achieved in a very short time so you should be totally unconcerned about a modest delay in immigration.

Currently there is no shortage of labour so the idea that we are crippling anyone with a worker deficit burden, is inappropriate.

You, yourself have posted previously, that you believe that there are huge productivity improvements possible _ in fact you were (or some strange reason) frightened they would destroy society : have I misunderstood that or is that view inoperative?

Your view of the EU is noted:
I agree there have been benefits and one may or may not have been relative peace : they all could have been achieved without ever closer integration and without unlimited free movement of people.
Better would have been (and still is) simply tariff free movement of goods with the whole world. This would probably have reduced wars all over the world as prosperity spread more quickly and more widely.
However, I also have concerns with the rise of racist fasctist parties all over the eu which may in the future lead to armed conflict.

I'm not sure which fallacies you are referring to
: that housing will be built in the millions in the next couple of years
: that there is a huge shortage of labour
: that free trade with all the world would not make us richer
: that free trade with poorer countries would not have made them richer and may well have encouraged more democracy
: that for truely essential labour shortages we can invite overseas people to work here at that time
: that if in 15 years time we have a labour shortage of young people then we can review our views on immigration
: that there is no scope for significant improvement in productivity
: that some of us don't believe in the productivity lump of labour fallacy.

and many many more

I will ignore your last few unworthy comments as its late and I will assume you have had a drink or two.