Mother passed: family and funeral problems

borthers

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Ah! so walking away is no longer an option. To be honest those cost do not seem unreasonable. If there is insufficient money in the estate to pay all the unsecured debt, this is not an issue anyway as funeral costs come before the other debts. If assets exceed the debt then the additional funeral cost will eat into your inheritance, but for the sake of a few hundred pounds, fighting your aunt over this is not worth the pain that may cause.

Thanks!

She left her full interest only mortgage (secured debt) along with unsecured debts. I know the funeral costs are technically reasonable, but we asked for a simple cremation with no service. She went ahead with extras like a full church service, funeral cars, etc despite our objections. That's what we object to. We're not concerned with inheritance. We're concerned with the fact that she's trying to cause problems for us relentless. And she's ignoring the funeral director and pointing the finger at us to pay it when the house hasn't even been sold.

redpete

Stop thinking about it being you that is being asked to pay. The estate pays if there is sufficient money to do so. Despite your aunt misleading a number of people £3200 is not unreasonable for a funeral and if there is enough in the estate to cover this then you should stop arguing and let it be paid. If there is not sufficient in the estate then stop arguing and let your aunt sort out the responsibilities that she has taken on.

borthers

redpete wrote: »

Stop thinking about it being you that is being asked to pay. The estate pays if there is sufficient money to do so. Despite your aunt misleading a number of people £3200 is not unreasonable for a funeral and if there is enough in the estate to cover this then you should stop arguing and let it be paid. If there is not sufficient in the estate then stop arguing and let your aunt sort out the responsibilities that she has taken on.

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm caught in the middle here because she's refusing to pay and the funeral directors are then chasing us. She's telling them that we're dealing with it and that it's not her problem, but she signed the contract and the house has not been sold. There may be money once the house is sold, there may not be. But we're now being asked for payment by the funeral directors because she's ignoring them.

Yorkshireman99

borthers wrote: »

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm caught in the middle here because she's refusing to pay and the funeral directors are then chasing us. She's telling them that we're dealing with it and that it's not her problem, but she signed the contract and the house has not been sold. There may be money once the house is sold, there may not be. But we're now being asked for payment by the funeral directors because she's ignoring them.

You are not responsible. Politely tell the undertaker that it is her problem and tell them to stop bothering you. Don't be bullied into paying. Who is the executor?

antrobus

Yorkshireman99 wrote: »

You are not responsible. Politely tell the undertaker that it is her problem and tell them to stop bothering you. Don't be bullied into paying. Who is the executor?

The OP. Or at least they are the administrators. Which is the same difference.

borthers wrote: »

....We're in the process of probate. House is selling for significantly less than market value because of the condition.....

Therefore the OP is responsible.

borthers wrote: »

....We're not sure how much will be left over. Auntie defied us on the simple cremation and totalled up funeral costs of £3200. .....

I understand what you are saying, but you earlier stated that "We said that we didn't want to organise a funeral because of the way she'd abused and neglected us." But

Immediately following the death the Personal Representatives is responsible for registering the death and organising the funeral if no member of the family is willing to do so. The person arranging the funeral becomes personally liable for the funeral costs, though they have the first call on the deceased’s assets to be reimbursed for any reasonable costs incurred.

https://owenkenny.com/duties-of-an-executor/

If you are now dealing with probate, it was your job to organise the funeral, but you passed, and let your aunt do it. So in one sense, you've made your own bed.

borthers wrote: »

....British law states that whoever signs the contract must pay the funeral costs, but that they can claim back 'reasonable funeral costs' from the estate. We just want to know whether, if there's any money left after paying the mortgage, what would reasonable costs be? We told her there was no money and that she should have a cremation only: no service, etc. She defied us. ....

In general, I suspect that the law would regard 'reasonable costs' as being what the ordinary person would spend given the circumstances, although HMRC has specific guidance as to what would be regarded as reasonable for the purposes of IHT.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm10371.htm

I am inclined to agree with the previous poster; having a fight with your aunt on this issue, ain't worth the pain.

wwl

borthers wrote: »

Hello.

TL;DR: The auntie is now refusing to pay the funeral parlour despite having signed the contract.

.

I think that is the only thing that matters. If there is any value in the estate, Auntie can recover the cost before any debts are paid, but AIUI the funeral is a simple business transaction with the person who arranged it (and presumably already paid a deposit), so she is the only one that has liability for it now.

Mojisola

borthers wrote: »

We warned the funeral parlour and her that there was no money in her accounts and a significant amount of debt. Despite this, the auntie lied that the paperwork would "pay for the funeral" and signed the contract. We asked them for paperwork and cost breakdown of the funeral, but they didn't give it to us because she signed the paperwork. She paid no deposit.

The auntie is now refusing to pay the funeral parlour despite having signed the contract.

The funeral parlour is chasing us and the house is still not sold.

We warned them that there should be nothing other than a cremation and they did not listen. We don't believe we should have to pay the full amount, which includes all kinds of disbursements, because we told them multiple times that there was no money and a lot of debt. To us, reasonable funeral costs cover the cremation and doctor certificate, but we're obviously not legal experts.

redpete wrote: »

Despite your aunt misleading a number of people £3200 is not unreasonable for a funeral

Given that the aunt and the funeral directors were repeatedly told that the funeral should be kept to a minimum, I would only reimburse for the cremation and associated fees.

For the time being, I would tell the FD that they have a contract with the aunt and that they should stop contacting the estate administrators.

TBagpuss

I agree with Mojisola. I woul write a polite letter to the FDs stating that you do not have any contract with them and that they must rely on thair agreement with Aubnt in relation to the funeral costs. State that, as confirmed to them on [date of the conversation's you had with them] the estate will only reimburse the basic cost of cremation, and will do so once the assets of the estate are available.

I would also write to aunt, enclosing a copy of the letter to the FDs and stating to her that once the estate is setled, you will arrange to pay directly to the FD the amount needed to vcover the basic cremation costs (less any amount she has actually received in relation to the pension) but that as she chose to arrange for additional services which she knew you diod not want and made claer in advance that the estate would not be paying, that you will not be able to reimburse her for the additional costs she chose to incur despite your explicit instructions, on behalf of the estate, that they were not reasonable in the circumstnaces.

£3,200 is fairly normal for a funeral but I think it is reasonable to argue that it was not a reasonable coss where you had explicitly warnd that the costs should not be incuirred owing to the liky vvalue of the estate.

The pension company should be able to inform you, when you send them copies of the letters of administrstion, what if any payment has ben made from the pension. If aunt has actually received that money then you can, I think, partvcualrly on the basis of the text s (you kept those, didn't you?) offset that agaisnt anything you would otherwise r poaying from the estate for the funeral.

konark

Who put the house up for sale? If there is no administrator nobody has the right to sell the house. Couldn't you have got someone to clear it up before putting it on the market. If the equity in the house does not exceed the debts (inc. Funeral costs ,which you seem inordinately bitter about) just walk quietly away.

heuchera

Is it worth the OP getting a loan to pay the funeral directors and recouping the money later when the house gets sold? Or should he/she just make the funeral directors wait? The house could take years to sell! Are they likely to sue?