Civil Enforcement Ltd - Draft court letter **Urgent HELP pls**

N4D5

The_Deep wrote: »

You are the second one today.

hxxp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69678807#post69678807

thanks for the link however not a lot there to help me at this stage.

What choice do i really have, either pay to get rid of the situation, or do i proceed to court.

I was not the driver of the car at the time of offence. it was my brother in law, he went for a late night takeaway and hadn't realised to had parked on the car park as its attached to the takeaway. He was only there for about 7 -10 mins max after 10pm.

Umkomaas

The only time this could proceed to court is when formal court papers are issued. You're not there yet, in fact the LBA you've received looks rather amateurish, especially with DRAFT emblazoned across it and the juvenile photocopying of the Suoreme Court Beavis outcome.

Is that YTS scheme still operating?

N4D5

Umkomaas wrote: »

The only time this could proceed to court is when formal court papers are issued. You're not there yet, in fact the LBA you've received looks rather amateurish, especially with DRAFT emblazoned across it and the juvenile photocopying of the Suoreme Court Beavis outcome.

Is that YTS scheme still operating?

Thanks,

Lets say i send them this letter, would i still have the option to pay rather then go to court if they then sent the correct letter.

However if no response is received from them should i assume case closed, or am i likely to be taken to court at a later date.

Is my letter ok if i update as per previous posts.

Should i tell them at this stage who the driver was.

N4D5

or should i ignore it as its a crappy attempt at getting me to pay.

Thanks

Umkomaas

You can pay at any time, right up to the courtroom steps, so there's no need to be panicked into anything at this stage, watch how it unfolds.

You could name the driver any time to the point when legal proceedings commence - and a LBA is not the start of legal proceedings in the context of naming the driver.

Is the driver primed to deal with this should CEL issue a NtD to him/her? Whether they will or not is debatable - they don't much play by any rules, but if they do it will be possibly easier for the driver to defeat this at POPLA.

If they don't, at least you have a paper trail to show you've played by those rules and have been reasonable. Keep all paperwork on this case safe from here on - they have six years from the 'contravention' to pursue this.

I'm not an expert in responding to LBAs, in fact this forum doesn't deal with them, other than in the margins. One or two infrequent regulars have some experience in this context, they may drop by.

For what it's worth your response looks ok to me, but CEL don't have any Legal Department or team of solicitors issuing LBAs on their behalf, so the following doesn't really hold together.

I think that a legal department staffed by solicitors should be able to produce a compliant ‘letter before claim’, before sending it out to me.

N4D5

Umkomaas wrote: »

You can pay at any time, right up to the courtroom steps, so there's no need to be panicked into anything at this stage, watch how it unfolds.

You could name the driver any time to the point when legal proceedings commence - and a LBA is not the start of legal proceedings in the context of naming the driver.

Is the driver primed to deal with this should CEL issue a NtD to him/her? Whether they will or not is debatable - they don't much play by any rules, but if they do it will be possibly easier for the driver to defeat this at POPLA.

If they don't, at least you have a paper trail to show you've played by those rules and have been reasonable. Keep all paperwork on this case safe from here on - they have six years from the 'contravention' to pursue this.

I'm not an expert in responding to LBAs, in fact this forum doesn't deal with them, other than in the margins. One or two infrequent regulars have some experience in this context, they may drop by.

For what it's worth your response looks ok to me, but CEL don't have any Legal Department or team of solicitors issuing LBAs on their behalf, so the following doesn't really hold together.

Thanks,

Whats an LBA? and a NtD? (sorry new here) is that a notice to driver.

The driver is my brother in law and lives with me so theres no issues there i can do all the work on his behalf and at the worst worst case scenario he can pay it.

If i progress via the POPLA route, what do i need to do or what do i need to do via his name as the driver at the time.

Not sure if i should leave the driver details out yet and provide this on a later date if progressed.

I hope as you have advised someone who has more experience in this can advise. I really want to ensure my letter is correct before i post out.

Once again thanks for you help.

Nad

Umkomaas

LBA/LBCCC - same/same.

The only hope of making a POPLA appeal is if the driver is named, CEL decide to play ball, send the driver a NtD (Notice to Driver), the driver appeals to CEL, they reject the appeal and forward a POPLA code in the rejection letter. You can't just contact POPLA without going through this process.

If the driver is content with being nominated, by all means do so. As a minimum, you could, at a later stage, show a court that CEL were pursuing the wrong defendant in you. You could end up with a POPLA code. You are more likely to receive no response, or one telling you it's too late (which its not) all of which provide you with more positives than negatives. I can't see any adverse reasons not to name the driver.

N4D5

Thanks guys,

I have done a revised version (see below) I have included his name only, and a provided a little about possible offence, should i be providing this and his address also.

Can someone please confirm if this is OK to send out via recorded delivery or are any changes required.

I hope they read it and close case, how long do they have to respond, or shall i expect it to go quite for another two years.

Thanks in advance.

Civil Enforcement Ltd
Legal Department, Horton House
Exchange Flags
Liverpool
L2 3PF


8th December 2015

REF: PCN ***********

Dear Sirs,

Re: LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM dated 4th December 2015

I am writing to acknowledge receipt of the above letter.

I would like to say that I have not had any correspondence from you or any other parties demanding payment of a parking fine.

I would like to point out you have not provided any date or time of the parking offense on the above letter, which is little bizarre.

You have also not provided me with the registration and make/model of the car. Picture evidence of this is the minimum you can provide for me.

I have only once ever used this car park which was previously a cinema, now a banqueting hall. The only time I have used the car park was for a wedding and upon entering the venue there was a computer system which I entered my registration number in to avoid any parking charges.

My car is driven by more than one person and the only other time my car was ever in this car park may have been when it was driven by ******** ********. Who went for a late night takeaway and used the car park entrance which is also part of the takeaway car park, the entry and exit is the same for your car park and the takeaway, he was there for less than 10 mins. You should be contacting him not me.

As per the online guidance I have read the Practice Direction.
You letter is not fully compliant with the Practice Direction, which it clearly needs to be.

I think that a legal department staffed by solicitors should be able to produce a compliant ‘letter before claim’, before sending it out to me.

The fact that I’m an unrepresented person with no legal training and I ‘m having to explain the Practice Direction required from you is just not acceptable.

I request that you send me a fully compliant ‘letter before County Court Claim’, so that I may deal with my own obligations under the Practice Direction.

To help you I have provided an extract of the Practice Direction dealing with the requirements for a ‘Claimant's Letter Before Claim’:

Extract from Practice Direction
Annex A

2. Claimant’s letter before claim

2.1
The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter. This should enable the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include –

(1) the claimant’s full name and address;
(2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable);
(3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based;
(4) what the claimant wants from the defendant;
(5) if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated; and
(6) details of any funding arrangement (within the meaning of rule 43.2(1)(k) of the CPR) that has been entered into by the claimant.
2.2
The letter should also –
(1) list the essential documents on which the claimant intends to rely;
(2) set out the form of ADR (if any) that the claimant considers the most suitable and invite the defendant to agree to this;
(3) state the date by which the claimant considers it reasonable for a full response to be provided by the defendant; and
(4) identify and ask for copies of any relevant documents not in the claimant's possession and which the claimant wishes to see.

I believe that it makes sense to comply with the Practice Direction's requirement and refer this matter to POPLA, which is the appropriate form of ADR for parking disputes.

I am entitled to be given a list of the ESSENTIAL documents that the PPC intends to rely on in its claim against me personally. As you have made me the claimant I would like to know what essential documents you will be producing in evidence against me. I have no objection to you adding to this list once I have seen my defense, however my defense will not be issued until after the start of proceedings, and this list of documents is required to be provided to me BEFORE proceedings have even been started, under the Pre-action Conduct steps, set down by the court.

You have given me 7 days to make payment, surely I should be given more time to state my defense.

I kindly request that you remember the Court's powers to apply sanctions for non-compliance with the Practice Direction under Para 4, and expect to receive a fully compliant ‘Letter Before Claim’ within 14 days. If I do not receive a fully compliant Letter Before Claim as requested, I will seek the assistance of the court.

Please do me the courtesy of reading and replying to this letter. Please note, if you send me a generic template letter which does not address my requests for information, I shall copy the correspondence to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and ask it to investigate your breach of the Principles set out in the SRA Handbook version 8, published on 1st October 2013.


Yours faithfully

Mr **********

N4D5

To help others please also see: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69694547#Comment_69694547

N4D5

bump. thanks