Nightime Parking Ticket ; IPC

Umkomaas

This suggests to me that I can be done for trespassing?

You can ........ but by the landowner, to whom, if found against you, you would be liable for any damage you caused. Did you rip out any gates, crash through any walls, smash up any buildings? Thought not. In which case a typical award against would likely be in the region of £1 - start saving!

garrysith68

thanks, but what I meant was the wording above suggests the parking ticket is valid if I trespassed too (5.2(b))

ManxRed

No, if you trespassed, the ticket would be for £1.

garrysith68

And heres the appeal response..after just 16 hrs....

Thank you for your appeal received on 17/12/2015 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the parking attendant. Our records show that the notice was correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking. On the available evidence it would have been obvious to the appellant that you were on private land. The land is managed by us the parking operator with the authority of the landowner. It was incumbent on the appellant to make sure that you are familiar with any restrictions on the use of that land before you parked and left your car. Contractual signs within view of the appellant's car make it clear that parking was reserved for those whom are not in breach of the contravention otherwise a charge would be levied. The appellant did not do so. In these circumstances, it is arguable that the operator is entitled to its charge,our charges do not breach any unfair consumer regulations nor do we have to justify any pre estimate loss.
In this appeal the onus is on the Appellant to prove their claims and you have provided no evidence of authority or collaborating evidence and in the absence of documentation we are not satisfied that the Appellant has an unrestricted right to park. Our charge was issued in accordance with the contractual terms of the site we manage.
Please now make payment of £60 to reach us by 20/12/2015 or £100 to reach us by 03/01/2016. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be offered again. Failure to pay the parking charge within 28 days from the date of issue will result in your case being transferred to our debt recovery department, solicitors may be instructed and additional administrative and court costs may be occurred.
'Not Clearly Displaying A Valid Permit'
All of our signs, our sites, the positioning of said signs on said sites are independently audited by the IPC before we can begin enforcement, so the claim that they do not meet IPC standards is moot. You have admitted that you are not a valid permit holder, nor was your vehicle pre authorised by ourselves, and as this is one of the terms and conditions of the contract that you entered into by parking your vehicle on the site we manage, the charge was legitimately issued and we have no grounds to cancel on this occasion. Please assess the above mentioned supreme court judgement on the "ParkingEye vs peavis

Guys_Dad

So an admission in writing that it is NOT a charge for parking, but a charge for breach of t&cc.

But if you had no permit, you were trespassing and that is the point. Beavis was for a legitimate parker who was permitted to park but overstayed. You had no business being there in the first place. Quite a different kettle of fish that would be obvious to any proper court.

Appeal to the IAS alonng these lines saying that the charge for trespass is extortionate and not covered by Beavis.


Even the IPC Code of Practice recognises the difference page 10 here http://theipc.info/resources/brandings/brandmedia_2_Code-of-Practicev3.pdf

2.1 Where the basis of your parking charges is based in the law of contract it will
usually be by way of the driver of a vehicle agreeing to contractual terms identified by
signage in and around a controlled zone. It is therefore of fundamental importance that the signage meets the minimum standards under The Code as this underpins the validity of any such charge. Similarly, where charges are founded in the law of trespass and form liquidated damages, these too must be communicated to drivers in the same way.
2.2 Signs must conform to the requirements as set out in a schedule 1 to the Code.

garrysith68

Ok, thanks for that, i will do so.
Just to aid my undersranding and argument, is there anywhere/anything i can reference that shows the wording on the signage is infact barring me from parking. I guess it has been written in the way it has so the wording implies the 'law' unto which they are stating breach..but can be interpretted both ways (ie.. It seems ambiguous to me). Sorry, layman to this, so just want to make sure i dont put my foot in it and end up being taken to court and done over!!
Cheers for all help, its much appreciated.

The_Deep

lots of advice here, some good, some bad.


This is bad


I'd also ask that if the store is closed what objection could there be to parking? Ask why barriers aren't installed if parking after hours is such a great problem to them

Could they object because it is their land? Why should they install a barrier, they are expensive, probably need PP, and are constantly in need of maintenance.

garrysith68

How much info do i have to put in an appeal to IAS? All my original appeal, their response and my reason for appealing that response ?
Cheers

gerryf

I have just been through a similar experience, interestingly enough on a Halfords site. Like you, I parked at night when the shop was shut. After reading the forums I took the view that I could not challenge the PCN legally - I was technically in the wrong and was trespassing. I wasn't prepared to drag myself through the courts for the sake of £60.

My advice is to find out who owns the site - it is probably not Halfords, particularly if there are other traders on the site. Searching the address on google may help, otherwise ask the Halfords manager if he knows who the landlord is. Appeal, in writing and by phone, to the landlord. Use a sob story. Do it before Xmas because they may be more charitable. Offer to give £20 to charity if you like.

Worked for me. Hope it works for you. Let me know the address if you can't find the landlord and I'll try and help.

Finally, no matter when you park, always check the signs. Assume nothing. Good luck.

garrysith68

Thanks gerry. Was your pcn for trespassing though? Mine is supposedly breaching t&c from supposed contract i made by parking there.. Which it would appear is actually trespassing, not breach, and no signage related to trespass... So Theoretically £1 max.
Site is blandford street, newcastle. My main problem is they got me twice. First time without a windscreen ticket, so that one has just dropped through the door yesterday. Very !!!!ed off. Dont want to waste £120, but also dont want to make it in excess of 300 if court involved! Only have 1 day to pay the 60 if thats my option! But prefer to keep appealing!